Beginners guide to Venomous snakes

natas · #1 (**permalink**) 02-07-2002, 06:03 PM

Hey I like the sound of the article. I was hoping someone like Julius could write one up.

Mainly a idea of what it takes to start with Ven's. Whats the best snakes to start with, precautions to take and the biggest mistakes people make.

I don't want this to be a article urging people to rush into getting Ven's...in fact I want it to be more of a article explaining why only the most serious of herper's out there should get involved and why most of the serious herpers still don't [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]
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#2 (**permalink**) 02-07-2002, 06:45 PM

Hehe..Some of us "serious" herpers know better lol. Naw..actually it takes a great degree of experience as well as knowledge and training..which not all of us have..even keeping as long as we have [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img] Besides ..Who wants to "just" look at your snake when ya can keep non-vens and handle 'em. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] The keeping of vens requires much more than just husbandry and "basic" handling also. Have fun Julius ! Najaboy { Ken Harbart would make a great asset to this article you are looking for also [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] ]
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rottie · #3 (**permalink**) 02-07-2002, 07:32 PM

Telefrag .. keeps hots doesnt he?

im sure that he could add to the article...

Where are you telefrag?

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JuliusSqueezer · #4 (**permalink**) 02-07-2002, 09:41 PM

My thoughts on this are simple. If you aren't keeping them for serious educational or research reasons, there is no valid reason to keep them. They are a horrible choice for someone just looking to have a cool pet. There are over 2000 other choices that are just as cool and can't kill you or your friends and family. If you are keeping them for education or research then of course you know how important it is to educate yourself on this subject and to do the research [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] The first thing you need to research is SNAKE BITE PROTOCOL for your particular species. There is no one answer for this since venom from different species varys so greatly. Weigh the risk and the expense or even the availability of treatment against the desire to own before you bring one home. I have been handling hots, mostly roadside rescue/relocation since my mid-teens to present time...in all 20+ years. No matter how beautiful the animal or what a great set of rattles some may have had, I never had even this slightest urge to want to bring any home other than one baby copperhead. Sure there are cooler hots just as available. But the venom is mild as is the temperment and risk is low and I am getting involved in education so I needed at least one representitive. Copperheads are needlessly feared and slaughtered in great numbers where I live and I hope to end some of that. Some animals are best when left to enjoy in their natural environment. I love Killer Whales too as much as any Marine Biologist....But I have no plans to keep them either. It is OK to admire and love something and not feel a need to cage it. It is also OK to fear or respect something and not feel a need to kill it. Those that collect hots for the purpose of being cool and to impress people, I have only 2 words for "Natural Selection". You can wave to Darwin on the way out.

For those who aren't so easily discouraged:

As far as a starter snake...I agree with those that say start with a thrashy demonic nippy colubrid like a coachwhip or a racer and avoid bites for a year. Another good choice before keeping vipers is a viper boa. They are nippy by nature and strike in much the same way puff adders and gaboon vipers do.

For a first actual hot I would go rear fanged, anything other than a boomslang.
then maybe a copperhead, pigmy rattlesnake, eyelash viper, waglers viper, palm viper. These are all fairly mild and considered sub-lethal. This does not mean that a bite will not be painful and serious. You still could lose a limb or the use of one.

Before even thinking about getting cobras, taipans, atrox etc. spend the money for the antivenen. If you can't afford it then you can't afford the snakes. Your insurance will usually not cover a bite from your exotic pet and the zoos and research centers are doing good to afford what stock they have to protect their employees. It is very expensive. Probably more than your car cost and it expires so it is an ongoing expense.
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Dragon · #5 (**permalink**) 02-07-2002, 09:51 PM

Got to agree with Jules on this one. I'm currently having an ongoing internal debate whether to get a couple of gorgeous little Hognose I saw in a herp shop near me (the fact that they were mating at the time was a huge encouragement! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]). I know you lot probably think they are pretty lame HOTS, but the fact is that they are venemous. Nobody knows how their body is going to react to an envenemation until it happens and then it could be too late.
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roachpunk · #6 (**permalink**) 02-07-2002, 10:52 PM

ive heard hognoses are good beginner snakes (I mean in general), its as mild as a beesting so theyre not really venomous at all, it could get nasty if you happen to be allergic, but i really dont think it will kill you. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] roachpunk
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JuliusSqueezer · #7 (**permalink**) 02-08-2002, 01:45 AM

They are only lame to the thrill seekers that think keeping hots is a way to prove coolness. Hognosed snakes for the most part....don't bite. So the fact that they even have any venom seldom becomes an issue unless you happen to be a toad. They are great pets for anybody. They are active and have an almost puppy dog personality. Outside of the herp world....I never mention to people that hognosed snakes are rear fanged vens...I think most of us would prefer them not being added to the list of "kill on sight snakes" by ignorant humans.
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#8 (**permalink**) 02-08-2002, 04:44 PM

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>
Before even thinking about getting cobras, taipans, atrox etc. spend the money for the antivenen. If you can't afford it then you can't afford the snakes. Your insurance will usually not cover a bite from your exotic pet and the zoos and research centers are doing good to afford what stock they have to protect their employees. It is very expensive. Probably more than your car cost and it expires so it is an ongoing expense. </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

AMEN!

Unfortunately, people buy non-venemous snakes and can't afford a visit to the vet if it comes up. Anti_venin is pricey stuff, depending on the type, it can be like $700 a vial. One guy got bit and required nearly 40 vials - that's $28,000 for the mathematically challenged out there.

Julius, I'm surprised you didn't mention your favorite statistic. 75% of all accidents with venemous snakes in North America involve alcohol.

Hots requires a different mindset to keep. I saw that first hand at Julius' house. Doing what I'd normally do in a situation, I'd mostly likely have gotten bitten, but Julius was there to smack me in the head and keep me from being stupid.

Jules has said this before, so I'll reiterate. Venemous snakes have bad sheds, get mouth rot and RI just like all other snakes, so you HAVE to handle them at some point. Think your vet will administer antibiotics to a hot for you??? Think again, it's not worth his risk so guess who'll do it. you.

Anyone that's ever had a snake get out, you are not a candidate for keeping hots. that would endanger more than just yourself, maybe more than your immediate family.

A lot of people just take hots waaaay to lightly....

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#9 (**permalink**) 02-08-2002, 06:07 PM

Good points Julius and J !
As for the Hognoses..They do have rear fangs and venom to a degree...BUT I actually have not heard of anyone getting bit by one , least of all a traumatic experience with a bite. My kids, including my 4 year old handle Hognose snakes all the time [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] They have been taught how to properly handle them and know the difference in relation to them as something such as a boa or ball python even. Hognoses are quite "tame" when it comes to handling. The only time I have ever had a problem is when me and another person were working with one to probe it for sexing[ not i the other guy was, i was just holding it] and I had the dang thing turn around and try to strike at me [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img] Needless to say, I no longer wanted to know it's sex ..lmao.
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Shadrach · #10 (**permalink**) 02-08-2002, 06:29 PM

Yeah Hot's should be left for the one's that know what they are doing! Not saying someone may not know what they are doing who's had snake's all their life! Me myself would never consider hot's, like Lori said how much fun could they possibly be ya can't handle them!? Even if I did consider hot's nothing more than a Copperhead or Mangrove! I really fell like people who have snake's (encluding me) at some point get way too comfortable when it come's to handling them and when ya let your guard down...........BAM...........that's when ya take a hit but we become use to this because we know that out NV species can't really hurt anything more than our pride! So I say Naja, Jules, Telefrag any other's out ther that keep hot's more power to ya! If I want to see one I'll come to your place hehehehe!

But yeah Natas I think a section would be good on this subject!
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Well you gonna eat me or What?

JuliusSqueezer · #11 (**permalink**) 02-08-2002, 09:25 PM

Any hot that ever make's it's way to my collection will actually be more of a "luke warm" [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] At least until my son turns 18 and my exwife can't make it an issue. hehe.

Thanks J ...that is yet another good example of Darwinism.....Please people....If you have hots..Don't drink and herp. Friends don't let friends herp hots drunk.

Some other skills to master before considering even handling hots:

Hooks. You have to be an excelent snake hook operator. There is much more to it than it may seem too..Practice control and know exactly where to hook a snake so he is balanced and won't have to wiggle around to correct hisself or how to hook the upper 1/3 and hold the tail in the other....without getting bitten. Practice.

Tubes. Learn to tube a snake safely. By tubing, I don't mean tube feeding...I mean the clear tubes you have them crawl partially into so the biting end is contained and the rest of the body is there for your probing, injecting or otherwise medicating pleasure. This can usually be done by placing the snake on the floor and holding the tube at a 45 degree angle up agaisnt a wall...and guiding the snake to it with a hook...they usually try to go around it but with good hook placement you can turn them back into it and they will start crawling right up. This method works for pit vipers anyway. I have no experience with faster moving cobras or mambas that tend to want to chase their keepers around the room.

Cage security. If you have made a post over the past 6 months to a year about your cornsnake that escaped .... think twice before putting a mamba in the same kind of setup. I know that's a big DUH....but it happens. Also...little hands go places where you would never expect no matter what you tell them and no matter how many times they say "I KNOW" Kids will open cages. Lock the cage. Lock the door. Duct tape the kids to a chair if you have to. Mambas and kids are a bad combination in most households.

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BWSmith · #12 (**permalink**) 05-01-2002, 05:20 PM

I think that it would be difficult to top Allen Hunter's Venom 101 articles. It is about to be turned into a book with added sections. I think that before hots should be considered, proper training is a must. I trained for 2 years before I got my first hot. The knowledge is very valuable. Just watching other people work with them gives you an understanding of how they move and little body language clues. Personally, I have a complete protocol kit, emergency numbers and all the meds I need to pretreat myself bfore the hospital. I even keep exotic species protocols on hand. Prepare for the worst! Yo never know when tragedy will hit. I think about everything has been pretty well covered. I am trying to put together several articles right now on vens and edit Venom 101, but I will help out however I can. We cannot keep people from getting into hots. We can only try to discourage them. Unfortunately, the hot keeper community is almost a sacred priesthood. If your not in it, you cant get in it. And it is difficult to find a mentor. I have only taken on one student for venomous husbandry, and I am glad i took him on. He will be an asset to the community someday. The first thing I always do is show bite photos. Luckily, I have never been envenomated, although several friends have and a couple almost died. Hots are not something to be taken lightly or kept for novelty. They are some of the most advanced predators on the planet and need to be treated as such. For those of us dedicated to venomous husbandry, there is no greater thrill than watching our collection thrive. And I agree that if you do keep hots, educate everyone you can. They are persecuted at every corner. Well, I will stop rambling.

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