Brave??? - Page 3

HERPHAPPY · #41 (**permalink**) 09-03-2010, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rachel SS

self envenomation is... very loosely comparable to getting a vaccine. And I say loosely because vaccines are dead forms of a virus/bacteria injected to help your immune system overcome the illness.

The theory is that self evenomation is that your body will learn to combat the very small amount of toxins implanted in your body to help reduce the severity of an actual bite.

I'm not sure of the evidence of this being a successful "preventative" to handling venomous snakes, and I will not support or deny the self envenomation, but just supplying a little bit of information as to how it "works"

Apparently it is fairly effective...Bill Haast* & others have done this for years. (* supposedly both for self-protection & to be able to donate blood to help others). But...(and it's a big one!)...it is very hard on your body! (not that dying of envenomation isn't...?) You also need liver & kidneys for life....? And the process is none too comfortable, so I've read?
Personally, you couldn't pay me to do it!

(and I'm not sure that everyone tolerates it equally well)

Tom · #42 (**permalink**) 09-03-2010, 05:43 AM

I don't think it's save to handle HOT snakes like this guy do. However they have been doing it just as long or longer than I have been handling my boas and pythons 34 + years now. I am sure they feel the same way I do with "my" snakes I have had for a long time. Some people say it's not save for me to handle my retic let alone let my kids play with them but I know what can and can't be done with "my" snakes and I am sure they feel the same away with there snakes. I do understand why they do it but I know I could never handle a hot snake like they do.

Bill Haast is 98 years old now and he has been self envenomation him self his whole adult life. Transfusions from his immunized blood to snake bite victims has helped save 21 lives. Bill is one of the people I have always looked up to since I was a kid. I would love to meet him someday but I don't think I will ever get that chance. I almost got to meet him in 2004 when I was in Tamp FL. for work but we could not work it out to meet.

take care
Tom

Sliding Scales · #43 (**permalink**) 09-03-2010, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

Bill Haast is 98 years old now and he has been self envenoming himself his whole adult life.

So what would happen if he bit me?

Icicle · #44 (**permalink**) 09-03-2010, 07:39 AM

Don't they have to keep upping there dosage to keep on top of it?

louise · #45 (**permalink**) 09-03-2010, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sliding Scales

So what would happen if he bit me?

he would go to jail. i know, i bit chances old owner

Sliding Scales · #46 (**permalink**) 09-03-2010, 08:46 AM

He has so much venom in him I would think that it would make his bite deadly...

TammyJamaica · #47 (**permalink**) 09-03-2010, 02:53 PM

He must need a permit to carry his teeth.

LSDillinger · #48 (**permalink**) 09-03-2010, 03:44 PM

There's a fine line between bravery and stupidity, but I think this is more a matter of dedication. Say what you want, quote whatever rules you want, but this dude obviously has some brass in his boxers and a lot of love for his craft. I'd love to have a cobra (though I'd probably opt for a venomoid) if I had the cash to blow on one. I've been hit a few times by copperheads, obviously that's nothing compared to a heavy dose of neurotoxins, but the point is, getting bit never stopped me from picking up another one, and eventually I managed to catch and handle the nasties without them nailing me, or trying. If you know what you're doing there's no reason not to do it.

HERPHAPPY · #49 (**permalink**) 09-03-2010, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sliding Scales

He has so much venom in him I would think that it would make his bite deadly...

He is carrying antibodies to the venom...not the venom itself, silly!

Sliding Scales · #50 (**permalink**) 09-03-2010, 05:14 PM

It does take some major nerve to handle a hot snake, but surely many good things comes from those that do it to make anti-venom. They use bee stings to help arthritis patients so I can just see what they could do with the information they can learn from examining the venom. I used to be a bee keeper and many people thought I was nuts for doing that. I went for years without any major stings, and after a while it no longer bothered me when I got stung.

There was one year when I went in to extract honey and was faced with a big problem. The honey flow was really bad that year and the hives were really waxed together making it really hard to get them apart. I boo booed when I started the process too late, and since I had so much trouble getting the hives apart it too long to finish. See... a bee hive can hold upward of seventy thousand bees, and when you go in to take the honey you do so in the afternoon when most of them are all out foraging. Well that was not the case for me this time, as since I was taking too long they were all returning and so they started attacking with a vengeance. I put on leather snowmobile gloves and just kept at it. I ended up getting stung 17 times on one arm and ten times on the other arm, and yes I had a shirt on and a head-net. My one arm swelled up so bad that I could not bend my elbow. I checked the snowmobile gloves (they were the gauntlet type) the next day and found thirty five stingers stuck in just one glove! The point is that there are risks whenever you handle creatures with the potential to hurt you. But with hot snakes there is no honey as a reward.

However, if those people use their experience to better mankind, then my hat is off to them.

SS

sFlsniper · #51 (**permalink**) 09-04-2010, 12:06 AM

I just now saw this gentleman (Albert Killian) on the history channels show "monster Quest". Which was about wild "monster" snakes in North America. I just walked in the door from work and saw him handling a huge King just like in the pic bellow. Free handling it.

I usually watch the National Geographic channels animal shows. They Are very "pro" snakes. I saw a rattlesnake show a week ago that was very educational. It dispelled the common myths and gave reasons why they should not be killed and how important they are to the environment. I've been very impressed with their channels and how "snake friendly" they are. However I've been noticing how animal planet certainly likes to tug on the fear string regarding snakes. I'm very disappointed in that channel. Although I do like their show "I Shouldn't be Alive".

ShaolinKid · #52 (**permalink**) 09-04-2010, 12:56 AM

Okay so I get the whole building immunity to the venom, similar to vaccines or even the occasional story of building immunity to poisons in this manner. But there are different types of venoms correct? dont some of them sort of dissolve tissue??

Also, one of the guys in the pictures is 98 years old??? Have we investigated snake venom's properties for prolonging and preserving life???? haha those guys def dont look 98.

Sliding Scales · #53 (**permalink**) 09-04-2010, 04:22 AM

Here is some of the snake that bit you...

Lets face it, some people will use anything to look good. I guess that you could say that after using this stuff you would have striking good looks.

I posted this elsewhere but thought this was a good place to show it again.

SS

HERPHAPPY · #54 (**permalink**) 09-04-2010, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaolinKid

But there are different types of venoms correct? dont some of them sort of dissolve tissue??
.....

About snake venom, it's complicated! Each snakes' venom may be a mix of a dozen or so things: some of these are 'hematoxic'....meaning they begin the digestive process for the snake (our own saliva does this as well...& if it were more concentrated & injected into a test animal it would have similar effects!)...but anyway those components cause the bruising & swelling (& pain!) we associate with venomous bites.

Other components may be 'neurotoxic', meaning they affect the nervous system (which keeps us breathing, heart pumping etc) so their dire consequences are a more immediate threat to life. Venom also contains a chemical which causes it to speed thru the bloodstream, which is why first aid recommendations have gotten away from efforts to prevent that; cutting & tourniquets do more harm than good!

Snakes are often categorized by the major effect their venom is known to have, but in truth, most venoms contain some proportion of both neuro & hematoxins. And furthermore, the venom can vary among different populations and individuals of the same species. For example, some 'mojave green' rattlesnakes are far more lethal than others! (And that has nothing to do with some bites being 'dry' or nearly so either...)

IMO, it's a fascinating field of research! But you don't want to be a venom test-dummy!

SUAD · #55 (**permalink**) 09-04-2010, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaolinKid

Okay so I get the whole building immunity to the venom, similar to vaccines or even the occasional story of building immunity to poisons in this manner. But there are different types of venoms correct? dont some of them sort of dissolve tissue??
Also, one of the guys in the pictures is 98 years old??? Have we investigated snake venom's properties for prolonging and preserving life???? haha those guys def dont look 98.

Bill Haast is not pictured in this thread.

Sliding Scales · #56 (**permalink**) 09-04-2010, 07:15 AM

I saw this documentary about a year ago where the people in the show had gotten bitten. It showed them in the emergency ward as they went through the effects and just seeing the pain that they were experiencing made my skin crawl. They interviewed them later and they said that it was so intense that they did not think it was possible for something to hurt so bad. The only thing I want to experience that is hot is Megan Fox. LOL

HERPHAPPY · #57 (**permalink**) 09-04-2010, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sliding Scales

I saw this documentary about a year ago where the people in the show had gotten bitten. It showed them in the emergency ward as they went through the effects and just seeing the pain that they were experiencing made my skin crawl. They interviewed them later and they said that it was so intense that they did not think it was possible for something to hurt so bad. The only thing I want to experience that is hot is Megan Fox. LOL

Yeah, I like rattlesnakes, but don't EVER want to experience a bite with venom...ugh! I have seen many medical pix/videos, you name it, of the effects....very scary stuff! And no guarantee everything will work ok afterwards...

Monkey · #58 (**permalink**) 09-05-2010, 09:17 PM

I have to say, I am a tad scared of snakes. I will handle a boa, or a python but that is about my limit. The speed and the lack of body language scares me. I can't really interpret the animal and thus I get insecure and that fast strike move really freaks me out. However, I find them amazing, and would never hurt one unless my life was at stake. These pictures are impressive, would I say it's a tad stupid yes, but we all do stupid things with the things we love. The car lover drives fast, I am hoping to handle an adult Savannah one day, I work with aggressive dogs, I have jumped in and pulled apart fighting dogs in over 30 situations. I have to wrestle them apart and this is when I have been alone. If the dogs had redirected I would of been killed. But I KNOW their bod language, I know the situation, and hence for me it decreases the risk of getting hurt drastically. As a matter of fact I have never been bit in that situation only one little pekingese got me once in all the years I have trained aggressive dogs. I think the same goes for these guys, they haev worked years, they know the snake body language, they learn the individual. Do they run a bigger risk of getting bit by their snake than me my dogs yes, but are they still doing a calculated risk I belive so. Their knowledge is mighty impressive. Will I ever handle such a snake oh no. Will never in my life happen, I am terrified of them.

What we say is stupid, is their love and who are we to judge? People jump out of airplanes, bungy jumping, hunting, throwing knifes, out for a late night jog, just walking to your car in a dark parking lot. IT can all be dangerous for sure, but we all have done something that's unsafe. And if we look at it, how many people die every year from handeling their venomus snake? and how many people die from cigarettes? (granted more people smoke then dealing with deadly snakes) but none the less I say smoking is more stupid cause that puts me in danger..

Just a few thoughts for food.

Sliding Scales · #59 (**permalink**) 09-05-2010, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkey

I have to say, I am a tad scared of snakes. I will handle a boa, or a python but that is about my limit. The speed and the lack of body language scares me. I can't really interpret the animal and thus I get insecure and that fast strike move really freaks me out. However, I find them amazing, and would never hurt one unless my life was at stake. These pictures are impressive, would I say it's a tad stupid yes, but we all do stupid things with the things we love. The car lover drives fast, I am hoping to handle an adult Savannah one day, I work with aggressive dogs, I have jumped in and pulled apart fighting dogs in over 30 situations. I have to wrestle them apart and this is when I have been alone. If the dogs had redirected I would of been killed. But I KNOW their bod language, I know the situation, and hence for me it decreases the risk of getting hurt drastically. As a matter of fact I have never been bit in that situation only one little pekingese got me once in all the years I have trained aggressive dogs. I think the same goes for these guys, they haev worked years, they know the snake body language, they learn the individual. Do they run a bigger risk of getting bit by their snake than me my dogs yes, but are they still doing a calculated risk I belive so. Their knowledge is mighty impressive. Will I ever handle such a snake oh no. Will never in my life happen, I am terrified of them.
What we say is stupid, is their love and who are we to judge? People jump out of airplanes, bungy jumping, hunting, throwing knifes, out for a late night jog, just walking to your car in a dark parking lot. IT can all be dangerous for sure, but we all have done something that's unsafe. And if we look at it, how many people die every year from handeling their venomus snake? and how many people die from cigarettes? (granted more people smoke then dealing with deadly snakes) but none the less I say smoking is more stupid cause that puts me in danger..
Just a few thoughts for food.

If I could only read the body language of women like you can dogs...I wouldn't be so lonely.

Actually they are what scares me.

All kidding aside you have a great point. Although I would sure like to break up a fight between two hot ladies, but I know that they would redirect their anger at me.

Monkey · #60 (**permalink**) 09-05-2010, 11:45 PM

hahahaha you are funny...

but bottom line is, we all subject us to risk of death with the items/animals we are comfortable with. I would say that pet snakes is slightly higher up on the scale, but it's still the same thing. People call me idiot for breaking up an 100 lbs rottweiler and a 60 lbs pitbull who is going at it. That don't scare me, but that scares others.

Womens body language is not that hard to interpret, we hit you we are not interested, as long as we smile to you and keep the conversation going when you talk to us, we are usually interested or at least curious if we are single. Easy enough

Advertisement