easily differentiate between venemous and non

[lockedfree]

I've read and heard:

1. Vertical pupils indicate venomous (Nonvenomous snakes have round pupils.)

2. A single row of scales between the vent and the tip of the tail. (Nonvenomous snakes have two rows of scales.)

3. Broad triangular head and narrow neck indicate venomous

BUT

1. My BCI has vertical pupils

2. Haven't been able to verify this one

3. My BCI has a triangular head and narrow neck


Does anyone know an easy, more reliable way to differentiate between venomous and non? (Aside from checking for fangs) [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Scenario = you come across a snake in the wild and.......?
[addsig]

	Boa Constrictor Imperator Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor imperator). Most common is the Colombian Boa.

[GldDrgn]

now keep in mind im thinking about the ppl who can not tell right away and realy should have no reason to TRY to play with a snake that they can not tell if it is venomous or not.

>>1. Vertical pupils indicate venomous (Nonvenomous snakes have round pupils.)
Do you realy wan't to get that close to check? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

>>2. A single row of scales between the vent and the tip of the tail. (Nonvenomous snakes have two rows of scales.)

Again do you realy wan't to be that close to find out your screwed? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img]

>>3. Broad triangular head and narrow neck indicate venomous
sounds like a ammie. hehehe not venomous but they do have big teeth. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Scenario = you come across a snake in the wild and.......? get bit and die? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img]

_________________
Life and death walk hand in hand, for you may not have one with out the other. Death comes on gossamer wings like that of a moth to the flame, yet life comes kicking and screaming into the world. What is better? You decide [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[Ed_r]

Absolutely Posatively false.

1) Boids have verticle Pupils, usually means a nocturnal predetor.

2) not sure but many species have this too I believe

3) Broad Triagular heads are possible for Vipers, But elapids do not. Plus Carpet pythons have very broad heads.

If you come across a snake in the wild you can not identify, Don't touch it. Also helps to know native herps.
And with most corals its red on black, venom lack, Red touches yellow , kill a fellow.
[addsig]

[morti]

The rules you listed (with the possible exception of the tail scale thing) will work in the US only. Except that, as ed listed, it doesn't work with coral snakes as they don't have a broad head.

The "rules" are different everywhere you go in the world. As ed mentioned, the only real way to know is to know exactly what venemous snakes can be found in your area and exactly what your local varieties of those snakes look like. That just takes study. The zoo can be helpful here.

-Your Sick Uncle morti.
[addsig]

[lockedfree]

>>now keep in mind im thinking about the ppl who can not tell right away and realy should have no reason to TRY to play with a snake that they can not tell if it is venomous or not.
>>
>>>>1. Vertical pupils indicate venomous (Nonvenomous snakes have round pupils.)
>>Do you realy wan't to get that close to check? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
>>
>>>>2. A single row of scales between the vent and the tip of the tail. (Nonvenomous snakes have two rows of scales.)
>>
>>Again do you realy wan't to be that close to find out your screwed? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img]
>>
>>>>3. Broad triangular head and narrow neck indicate venomous
>>sounds like a ammie. hehehe not venomous but they do have big teeth. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
>>
>>Scenario = you come across a snake in the wild and.......? get bit and die? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img]
>>
>>_________________
>>Life and death walk hand in hand, for you may not have one with out the other. Death comes on gossamer wings like that of a moth to the flame, yet life comes kicking and screaming into the world. What is better? You decide [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]


SOME people were helpful, (and thanks to those) while others just took the opportunity to be a smart aleck [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

Look if you don't know the answer why not keep the mouth shut and see what you can learn?

[edited by BWSmith for language 7-26-03]

[BWSmith]

First of all, calm yourself lockedfree and keep language G rated (they are very strict here). As smart aleck of a remark as it may seem, there is wisdom in simplicity. The scales for instance are only useful on a DOR snake. The pupils, you are generally pretty close to tell and most people will not look at the eyes. The head is a fairly good indicator in the US.

I assume that you are in the U.S. so I will concentrate on that.

A coral is easy to identify: Red touches yellow, Kill a fellow (Coral), Red touches black poison lack (mimick). Now that our one elapid is out of the way, the pit vipers are left.

Pit vipers generally have an arrow shaped head. Juvinales are easy to spot. Juvi Cottonmouths (Water Moccasins), Copperheads, and Pygmy Rattlesnakes all have sulfur yellow on the end of the tail. True rattlesnakes (Crotalus species) are all born with a button. Don't let rattlling of the tail fool you, most colubrids do this as well here. And they are harmless. There are a few genuses that may appear to have a "viper" head. Water Snakes (Nerodia) comes to mind. Easy way to tell a Cottonmouth from a watersnake: Cotton generally have their head at a 45 degree angle (even when swimming). While swimming, a harmless watersnake will have its head parallel to the water.

The easiest way to teach people which snakes are venomous is to have themlearnt he venomous native to their area. Generally, that will only be a few species. It is much easier to learn the few venomous ones than the many nonvenomous ones. Bottom line to teach people is that if they do not know 100% the species to leave it alone. And not to kill ANY snake, as that is how many envenomations occur. A venomous snake can inflict a fatal bite even after death.
[addsig]

	Cottonmouth Cottonmouth (Agkistrodon piscivorus) - Also known as a Water Moccasin.

[eddie]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> SOME people were helpful, (and thanks to those) while others just took the opportunity to be a smart aleck </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, Tim does have some very valid points.
As well as BWSmith.

Better to learn what species are in your locale, so they can be identified at a distance rather than getting close enough to take a strike.
Some are obvious, some not so obvious, such as the coral, looks like a fancy harmless colubrid by going on just the head shape.
Water snake, often mis-identified as a water moccosin and killed as such.
Hog nose, hehe, I have heard them called cobras on occasion.
Dekayis, called baby copperheads etc.

It is a good idea also, if you live in an area that can support non-indiginous animals, to learn to identify as many as possible, just in case someone let their pets loose or escaped on their own.

Example, Florida. Many non-native species of reptiles and you never know when you might see the headline - &quot;Gaboon vipers discovered in a growing wild population&quot;
At a quick glance, their heads colors and striping look a lot like a boas.
[addsig]

	Hog Island Boa hogg

[bensnacks]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> Scenario = you come across a snake in the wild and.......? </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

....assume it is venomous, and treat it as such.

Unless ,without touching the animal, you can positively identify it as a non-venomous species.
[addsig]

[jpaulson]

I see a very useful, yet time consuming, project building here. Since BWSmith is the hot's guy around here, I vote for him to tackle this idea, if deemed valuable.

Many of us are not that familiar with ALL the species of snakes, be it venomous or not, in our locale. Some may not even know how to go about finding out. What about posting in the caresheets or create a new forum for this type of information. Possibly have a link on the side bar to it? &quot;Native snakes in your area&quot;. Could we not list, per region, of what is native to our backyard? Possibly include pictures and such? I know it would be a large project, and I for one do not have the knowledge to do it. Maybe I am way off base here, but just a thought.....

Who knows? It could save the life of someone, somewhere, and the snake as well.


[addsig]

[schatzie001]

I believe the best way for me to know which are hot and which are not is to have BWSmith along on the trip. Works everytime! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img]
[addsig]