Question about mites on HOTS

[Boaman79]

First off I have no intention of ever keeping hots. However I was just curious how tough it must be to treat parasites (especially mites) on hots. It seems like alot of them would come in loaded up with em, especially if WC overseas.


I ask because over the past couple weeks I have been battling mites on my new little Burm I got from a pet store. I know, I know but me and the wife unit fell for him.


Although I think I finally have it licked I was just wondering due to how tough its been on a nonvenomous as to what you folks do on the bad boys? Lets say a big nasty Gabbie or Black Mamba comes in with them....now what?



Thanks for any info, just curious........

[reticguy69]

its not bad at all. you just handle them like you would if you were capturing them out of the wild. pin their head, grab them behind the jaws and back of the head, spray down their enclosure (preferrably put them in a temp enclosure), soak their bodies (while holding their heads of course), i prefer all natural mite erradicators, so i could spray right on them. repeat daily (including spraying the original enclosure with pam or equate or nix or whatever), until it sheds (which should be quickly, due to the mites and spraying the natural mite erradicator, as the body does into shed quiker, naturally when the scales are encountered with anything foreign. i do it, until they shed, make sure their normal enclosure is good and clean (you have to assume its good, as you cant see mite eggs, so one has to assume with all the cleaning using pam or whatever, erradicated the adults, young ones, and eggs, which it should).

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

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[HERPHAPPY]

Originally Posted by reticguy69

its not bad at all. you just handle them like you would if you were capturing them out of the wild. pin their head, grab them behind the jaws and back of the head, spray down their enclosure (preferrably put them in a temp enclosure), soak their bodies (while holding their heads of course), i prefer all natural mite erradicators, so i could spray right on them. repeat daily (including spraying the original enclosure with pam or equate or nix or whatever), until it sheds (which should be quickly, due to the mites and spraying the natural mite erradicator, as the body does into shed quiker, naturally when the scales are encountered with anything foreign. i do it, until they shed, make sure their normal enclosure is good and clean (you have to assume its good, as you cant see mite eggs, so one has to assume with all the cleaning using pam or whatever, erradicated the adults, young ones, and eggs, which it should).

FYI - the term "pam" used above is provent-a-mite, not the cooking spray!!! to whomever it may confuse...

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

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[reticguy69]

good call, i take for granted that everybody knows herp terms

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[Boaman79]

Great info, thanks!

Am I correct in assuming mites are a regular issue with HOTS?


I think of keepers like Viper Keeper on youtube and if he got a case of mites...WOW, he would have his work cut out for him! lol!

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

	Venomous Reptile A term commonly used to refer to a venomous reptile. Most commonly used in reference to venomous snakes.

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[reticguy69]

no. they can be very common with wc animals, of any species. the true snake mite (which is the mite that researches believe may be the link to ibd in certain boidae snakes) is not native to north america. but they are thousands of species of mites and ticks, all of which can be on any one snake from pretty much anywhere in the world. mites are more of a pain in the butt than health deterring in snakes, except the true snake mite, ophinonssus natricis, is the mite that could be linked to boas and certain python subspecies obtaining and dying from ibd

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

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	Inclusion Body Disease IBD

	Wild caught wild caught

[HERPHAPPY]

Originally Posted by Boaman79

Great info, thanks!
Am I correct in assuming mites are a regular issue with HOTS?
I think of keepers like Viper Keeper on youtube and if he got a case of mites...WOW, he would have his work cut out for him! lol!

In over 20 years working with "hots" (primarily w/c rattlesnakes) I never had any with noticable mites, nor any in my harmless collection except for a new bp (shipped to me and dealt with promptly) and a speckled kingsnake from a petstore (again, dealt with before any spread...). But it pays to be vigilant, and maybe some areas (I'm thinking humid? I was in the desert...) have more than their share?

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

	Venomous Reptile A term commonly used to refer to a venomous reptile. Most commonly used in reference to venomous snakes.

	Ball Python The Ball Python (Python regius), also known as the Royal Python, is a ground dwelling snake native to the savannahs and rain forests in western Africa, predominatly the countries of Ghana, Togo, and Benin.

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[SUAD]

For my hots, I just gave their cages the PAM treatment and soaked them in lukewarm water on their own. It always worked like a charm for me and I never had to lay a finger on them.

	Venomous Reptile A term commonly used to refer to a venomous reptile. Most commonly used in reference to venomous snakes.

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[Hotherps]

Originally Posted by Boaman79

Great info, thanks!
Am I correct in assuming mites are a regular issue with HOTS?
I think of keepers like Viper Keeper on youtube and if he got a case of mites...WOW, he would have his work cut out for him! lol!

How many snakes does Al have?

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

	Venomous Reptile A term commonly used to refer to a venomous reptile. Most commonly used in reference to venomous snakes.

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[Hotherps]

Mites are a problem with snakes coming in through dealers or from other collections. I’ve had them 3 times and in each case they where snakes that had come from another collection. They aren’t a problem for snakes coming in directly from the wild. I’ve used various treatments over the years more recently, Frontline spray. My other preferred method is to dunk the snake completely in a container of cooking oil. It works really well, is non-toxic and readily available any time of the day or night.

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[Gregg]

Originally Posted by reticguy69

its not bad at all. you just handle them like you would if you were capturing them out of the wild. pin their head, grab them behind the jaws and back of the head

There are actually many other less stressful ways to handle venomous in order to treat them for mites or any other parasite or sickness. I would advise against pinning as a means of handling as it puts you and your snake at risk for serious injury.

Anyway, I have noticed in Bitis and other African vipers like Atheris which I mostly work with, they seem to be free of extrenal parasites even when freshly imported. No ticks or mites. I have had colubrids get mites in my collection years ago but they never got into my hot collection even though they were housed in the same area.

If you do have an issue with mites in any collection, the best mite treatment to use is a spray called Black Knight II. It kills mites fast and doe not harm your snakes. The way I used it in the past was I fogged a bin with BK II and put the snake in the fogged bin. Whil the snake was in the bin, I removed all substrate from its cage, did a fast cleaning with water and bleach solution, and fogged the cage with the BK II. I did this step a week later and the mites were totally eradicated. I do not think I even had to do it twice but did anyway just to be sure. I have never had a mite issue since. Every new snake I get, gets fogged with BK II and then put it in its quarantine cage until it is ready to go into my snake room (60 to 90 days). Mites are very easy to get rid of if you use the correct mite treatment.

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

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[John_White]

Originally Posted by Gregg

There are actually many other less stressful ways to handle venomous in order to treat them for mites or any other parasite or sickness. I would advise against pinning as a means of handling as it puts you and your snake at risk for serious injury.

I agree 100%.

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

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[Hotherps]

Originally Posted by Gregg

There are actually many other less stressful ways to handle venomous in order to treat them for mites or any other parasite or sickness. I would advise against pinning as a means of handling as it puts you and your snake at risk for serious injury.
.

That would be true in the case of inexperienced keepers, but for someone who is highly skilled in handling snakes, the procedure should be of minimal stress to the snake.

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

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[Gregg]

Originally Posted by Hotherps

That would be true in the case of inexperienced keepers, but for someone who is highly skilled in handling snakes, the procedure should be of minimal stress to the snake.

I do not agree with this. Pinning is stressful and dangerous for both handler and snake no matter how advanced your skills may be. A "highly skilled" keeper should not resort to pinning. If anything the people who normally pin snakes are the inexperienced handlers.

I have kept various venomous species for well over 15 years and have not had to pin a snake yet no matter what issues they may have had. There are very few instances where pinning is an option an the only time this procedure should be used regularly is when venom is being extracted. There is no reason for a "regular" keeper to milk snakes and a mite infestation clearly does not warrent pinning.

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

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[John_White]

With pinning there is just too great a risk of injury to the snake. This is especially true with heavy bodied vipers that can easily injure neck vertebra with very little body movement.

I've been working with venomous reptiles for a few decades. When it comes to venomous snakes, "highly skilled" = "highly safe".

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[Hotherps]

Originally Posted by Gregg

I do not agree with this. Pinning is stressful and dangerous for both handler and snake no matter how advanced your skills may be. A "highly skilled" keeper should not resort to pinning. If anything the people who normally pin snakes are the inexperienced handlers.
I have kept various venomous species for well over 15 years and have not had to pin a snake yet no matter what issues they may have had. There are very few instances where pinning is an option an the only time this procedure should be used regularly is when venom is being extracted. There is no reason for a "regular" keeper to milk snakes and a mite infestation clearly does not warrent pinning.

Normally I would have to agree, but I am far from being a regular venomous keeper.

I’ll give you a clue, here I am at work in our Herpetarium extracting venom from one of our many Nigerian Echis ocellatus

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[fuglyfarmhand]

I'm not into hots but have always wondered that too. But I think that pinning ANY snake COULD be dangerous to both the snake and yourself. Just my .02

	Venomous Reptile A term commonly used to refer to a venomous reptile. Most commonly used in reference to venomous snakes.

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[boaterr]

Originally Posted by Hotherps

Normally I would have to agree, but I am far from being a regular venomous keeper.
I’ll give you a clue, here I am at work in our Herpetarium extracting venom from one of our many Nigerian Echis ocellatus

Yep that looks like an extremely comfortable position for that snake, like sleeping on feathers. I don't care if you have been working with hots or any snake for that matter for 25+years, holding them still behind the head is going to be stressful for the animal.

	Venomous Reptile A term commonly used to refer to a venomous reptile. Most commonly used in reference to venomous snakes.

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[Hotherps]

Originally Posted by John_White

With pinning there is just too great a risk of injury to the snake. This is especially true with heavy bodied vipers that can easily injure neck vertebra with very little body movement.

I've been working with venomous reptiles for a few decades. When it comes to venomous snakes, "highly skilled" = "highly safe".

Agreed and that is why I designed a special neck-brace tool to specifically restrain Crotalus durrissus but I also use it for other snakes like Bitis Sp.

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[Hotherps]

Originally Posted by boaterr

Yep that looks like an extremely comfortable position for that snake, like sleeping on feathers. I don't care if you have been working with hots or any snake for that matter for 25+years, holding them still behind the head is going to be stressful for the animal.

I would have to disagree, for example what would you say is an indication of stress in a snake? How about refusing food? Well I can tell you that I can extract venom from 50-100 Echis in the morning and offer them food in the afternoon and be fairly certain that I will get virtually every snake to feed.

Another point to consider is that venom extraction used to be a (mild) regulated procedure, but now the Home Office have deemed the procedure not to be stressful to the snakes so has been taken off and is no longer a regulated procedure. After literally tens of thousands of venom extractions I reckon that I know how to handle snakes both safely and very gently. Any stress that the snake undergoes is well justified. The venom I have collected from Echis ocellatus has over the last two years helped to save the lives of over 12,500 West Africans.

Ahh, I see you have deleted the comment about stroking my ego. I have been working with venomous for a long time and have been keeping snakes since 1969 ..... I am a well respected professional Herpetologist who does not need any ego stroking

	Venomous Reptile A term commonly used to refer to a venomous reptile. Most commonly used in reference to venomous snakes.

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