Thinking about getting a Vipera Berus

[Conan]

Hi, as most people here seem to have a tendency to tell every young rookie to stay the away from hots, i would like you to here me out first....

Well since i was 8, and got suspended for beating up a kid that tried to kill one of these babies on a field trip, I have wanted a Vipera Berus with their red misunderstood little eyes. In Norway we only have 3 species of snakes, and the Berus is the only HOT, but is also the only one i have ever been fasinated about. Mostly due to the misconception among hikers that your practically suppose to kill them on sight here in Norway.

So what i have been looking for a caresheet but I am struggling to find the information i need before i dare venture out into the woods to find my new pet.

I am wondering pretty much about everything thats spesific about this species, the rest i can fill in by reading posts here. and if there is any special advice anyone can give me. As keeping reptiles is illegal in Norway still its hard to come in contact with people that can help, especially with HOT's. It would also be nice with some pointers when it comes to caging, was thinking about making one myself, i have until they get out of hibernation next year to get everything ready so i have time to build (or reconsider if I decide its too soon so that thats said :P)

(although this might not be the most venomous snake out there, i do realize the potential damage its bit can cause. I want this on display in my bedroom where pretty much no one but me will see it, not for show and tell or to play "who wants to pet the snake")

YouTube - captive bred baby common european adders (vipera berus) born july 14th 2009 (had to add this they just looked so sweet :P)

Thx

[Conan]

YouTube - Keresztes vipera (Vipera berus)

xDxD

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[morti]

Hi there.

A couple really important things you should know:

1: It would be highly irresponsible of anyone to give you advice about caring for a snake that is illegal for you to own.

2: It would be highly irresponsible of anyone to give you advice about caring for a venomous snake without knowing for certain that you know what you are doing.

Even if I knew you personally and I was assured that you really do have the right training, equipment, and experience, I couldn't do it. It would be unethical and irresponsible.

The fact that I am only passingly aware of this species and I personally don't have the advice to give you is only moderately relevant.

Sorry.
-Morti

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[Conan]

Your points are valid, but would you then not give me any assistance with my cornsnakes, or my boas? or any other reptile i may later own? The snakes i have now are just as illegal as owning the berus. Norway has a ridiculously stupid law from 1977 that is to protect the norwegian fauna. This law has been changed several times since then. The problem being that they made exceptions for everything except herps, simply because norwegians are narrow minded people, mostly because of the berus, everyone are simply just tought from a young age that all snakes are evil, mean killing machines that you have to protect yourself from before it eats you alive (not kidding at all). In norway you can own the deadliest spiders and insects you can find in the world yet your not even allowed to have a pet frog that you find in a pond.

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[morti]

Technically, giving you advice about keeping snakes would be promoting illegal activities.

Here in the US, the state of Georgia (which is different than the Republic of Georgia in western Europe) has some weird laws. You can keep all the exotic snakes you want, but no native ones. It would be just as wrong for me to tell someone from Georgia how to keep a corn snake as it would be for me to tell you how.

	Corn Snake The Corn Snake or Red Rat Snake (Elaphe guttata) is a species of Rat Snake.

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[Conan]

so if you were a norwegian living in norway, reptiles are easy to get, not too expensive, and the police dont care unless they really have to, would you keep snakes? we our kind of like our own society, there are about 4.5million norwegians, and there are about 200,000 reptiles in norway, its not rare, and the law is in change they just cant decide how they want to change it, either they want a "legal list" of species or an illegal list. this debate has gone on since 2004 (discussions started in 1992). They were suppose to be done this juli, but they ended up yet again asking for more time. The reason it takes so long is because they cant decide whos jobb it is to change it, and when they do they run out of time or money so they pass it on to another part of the government.... the whole thing is retarded...
Their argument was for example that the snakes might escape and thrive, but that cant happen due to the winters, then there other argument was, no we can have reptiles because it is an animal that wouldnt survive norwegian climates so it would be unnatural...... i cant say i have ever seen a wild guinea pig her nor any goldfish or canairies yet they are in every pet store.

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[morti]

I understand your perspective.

I am not going to argue with you, but I will answer the direct question you asked: If I lived in an area where it is illegal to keep what pets I want, I suspect that I would probably move.

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[Conan]

Hehe its not as easy to understand when your not here to see how it actually works... for example police here do more to give people speeding tickets than investigate rape..... one saturday, they shut down the 911 because they didnt have enough people :P

But the thing is when moving isnt an option because i have evvverything here (its my home country :P), and all you have to do is take some precautions then i think you would rather "risk" it.... all i had to sacrafice is getting sunlight into my appartment and i can survive that :P and also choose my friends a bit carefully

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[Shadrach]

If reptiles are illegal how did you obtain Boas and Corns?

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[reticguy69]

regardless of how authorities police their laws and regulations, illegal is illegal. if it is illegal to keep snakes of certain species, then it is illegal, plain and simple. for instance, my rediculous state of arizona, i cant keep anything that is non-native. i can have a western diamondback and a black rattlesnake and sidewinder (which i do actually have), but i can own my dream snake, a gaboon viper. whether my local law enforcement chooses to police me or a murder scene, doesnt matter, it is illegal, bar none, so i dont keep any.

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[fuglyfarmhand]

All we have to remember is that at some point in time the "wrong" person "may" find out about our reptiles and that may cause other problems. Illegal is illegal and it has it's risks if you break the law.

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[Stargazer]

Note to self: Don't ever move to Norway.

If anyone here gave you advice, they'd be abetting a crime, and that would be documented here on the forums.

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[Shadrach]

ReticGuy you said you can't have non-native species but you signature says different?

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[vfoerster]

I agree some laws are rediculous. At the same time though it is the law. I knew that it was illegal for me to have a RTB in my area of Houston I was in. Due to that fact I moved cities where it is actually legal for me to own any snake to a certain extent. I still cannot own a Retic or Burm in my area due to HOA but they also allow that as soon as I get the permit. At that time also the member of HOA that made the rules in the neighborhood for those snakes requires to see pictures of all cages. Just to clear for it. I am just saying just because it isn't noticed, it is still illegal.

I am sorry I am better at talking then typing.

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[reticguy69]

i do not have any non-native venomous or hots. i have two hots, c. cereberus and c. cerestes, both are native to my state of arizona

	Venomous Reptile A term commonly used to refer to a venomous reptile. Most commonly used in reference to venomous snakes.

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[morti]

Does Arizona not consider Hydrodynastes gigas to be hot?

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[Conan]

Originally Posted by Shadrach

If reptiles are illegal how did you obtain Boas and Corns?

Ohh thats no problem at all, im far from the only one that has snakes and reptiles here. We get them from sweden and denmark without any problem at all, and we have a few breeders. I for instance have my own rat guy, he has about 14 snakes himself, we even have our own vets which dont rapport us to the police, its actually quite simple.

Not sure if all of you understood, but absolutly 100% of all reptiles and amphibians are illegal noooo exceptions, if it doesnt have fur and its not an insect, then its illegal :P Foreign or not, although we may have an abundance of pond frogs you cant even keep a tadpull...
(and as i said police here are useless, friend of mine was stabbed by a guy that had worked for him while he was working at his farm, and they got the guy; they then released him straight afterward because they didnt know who had brought the knife, and the only witness was my friends 80 year old dag which had to sit on the guy while my friend called the police; the guy also changed his story several times, but its easier to close a case than look into it....not to long ago an 10year old girl was raped, and after the appel the guy asked to have leagal fees covered, and they sentenced the girl to pay her own rapist, this was altered after it hit the media but still....)

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[sesshomaru 15405]

i can tell this is going to get good.

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[Conan]

Originally Posted by Stargazer

Note to self: Don't ever move to Norway.
If anyone here gave you advice, they'd be abetting a crime, and that would be documented here on the forums.

Actually under norwegian law, people are actually not obliged to turn me in for this incredibly enough, its even leagal to sell all the equipment and food for snakes in pet stores. My neighbor even helped me set everything up, and he has pictures of himself holding the snake, and if the police look through my computer and see all my friends holding my snakes, the only thing that happens is that i get a fine. The only reason why i am super careful is because i dont want to lose my animals , and if they cant be relocated to a zoo they get frozen, so im super careful.
Funny thing is if you have astma or if you are alergic to fur then you can apply for a any reptil you want, yet the only thing you can get is a turtle. since 1977 you could apply to get a snake leagaly and on the form it says what you need in order to be eligable, yet in 32years not one application for anythinhg except turtles (which are more dangerous when it comes to salmonella which is another one of their arguments against reptiles) has been given permission.
Now that we have astablished that no one here is doing something illegal, can i maybe get some assistance with out me have to defend my hobby; i do everything i can for these animals and if anything i think i should be treated like everyone else here on the forum; when it comes to caring for these animals one of the most important things you need is the right information, its the animals wellfare im asking help with, and if you guys cant look past the fact that this is the way it is in norway then i know when i am not welcome, and i will go somewhere else where people actually care enough to help instead of point out the obvious negative that i am more than enough aware of. The a lack of understanding and information is the biggest threat to a hobby like this......

Btw Star i know about your hijacking skills if your thinking about it....im watching you haha

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[Conan]

Sorry about all the typos was to focused on getting my message across, and i also decided to blame it on the fact that I am Norwegian and therefore not to articulate and nor do I comprehend all the grammatical rules of the English language.

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