Help PLEASE

[Boa_Master]

I have got a dumb ? I was lookin at venmous snakes and came across the word "venomoid".
Does this mean they are no longer venmous???? If so would it be legal to keep them in a state where its illegal to keep "hots"??? Man I sure hope so, I was looking at a rattlesnake that was a "venomoid" and I would like to have 1 ONLY if they are no longer "hot". So somebody please please help me. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[longhorn698]

i looked up that word on the net and it means that the snake is still vemonous. sorry man [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img]
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[rottie]

I believe that is a singular term over plural.. As to describe a group .. would be venomous, and if you were speaking of one it would be a venomoid not a venomous.

Correct me if I am wrong.

rottie

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	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Venomoid Venomoid surgery is the removal of venom glands. It is an operation to alter the functions of a snake, not an operation aimed at altering it's appearance. The measurable and desired effect is that the snake no longer produces venom.

[Boa_Master]

[img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif[/img] Man that sucks, i was really hopin. Here is an add I found on a different site its one reason I asked.



Venomoid Male KING COBRA. He is 10'+. LTC of over a year. Eating good, no regerataion. Glands have been removed, sugery is 100% perfect. I have many refraces, so just ask. Only 1200.oo shipped. Thats right a BIG King Venomoid That eats, for what they go for HOT!!! Pic for serious buyers. Only sold to Adults, and where Leagal.


So now im really confused (not hard to do ) [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
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[mirabelasunshine]

Hots and quasi-hots are *definitely* not my thing, but venomoid refers to venomous snakes whose venom glands have been surgically removed. These snakes come with a few problems. First, the surgery is disfiguring and ethically questionable. Secondly, some of them can't effectively digest their prey without the venom working on it from the inside, although I believe that's more true of snakes with hemotoxic venom (vipers, pit vipers) than those with neurotoxins (elapids, including cobras). Thirdly, there have been reports of incomplete surgical removal or actual regeneration of the glands, resulting in a truly venomous snake in the hands of people who handle it as though it is safe. Not my cup of tea.
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	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Venomoid Venomoid surgery is the removal of venom glands. It is an operation to alter the functions of a snake, not an operation aimed at altering it's appearance. The measurable and desired effect is that the snake no longer produces venom.

	neurotoxin Neurotoxin is a toxin that acts specifically on nerve cells – neurons – usually by interacting with membrane proteins and ion channels.

[Countryboy]

As far as your laws go, if it is still venemous or not it is illegal. From what I have herd they make no exception for surgical alterations. If i'm wrong correct me. You would need some sort of permit to be able to legally keep it. Sorry.
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	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

Mirabelasunshine hit it correct here. they are a ven..justhaving been altered..I'll leave my thoughts on that out of here [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_redface.gif[/img]
[addsig]

	Venomous Reptile A term commonly used to refer to a venomous reptile. Most commonly used in reference to venomous snakes.

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[najaboy]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> ..I'll leave my thoughts on that out of here </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

I won't. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]

Venomoids are venomous snakes that have had their venom glands or the ducts hacked out. They are nothing more than butchered snakes for those not responsible enough to keep hots properly.

That being said, they are still illegal wherever hots are prohibited for several reasons... 1) the unethical nature of venomoids, 2) the fact that regeneration of the ducts is remotely possible (3% regeneration rate for ductectomies), 4) the fact that most who perform the procedure are nothing more than two-bit hacks who mutilate snakes in their basement under unsterile conditions, and 5) venomoid snakes will still produce venomous offspring.

Venomoids have no place in private collections, IMO. The only purpose that they serve is to cater to folks who do not wish to maintain their snakes properly.

Sorry about coming accross so harshly, but this is a very controversial subject that most hotkeepers feel very strongly about.
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	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	In My Opinon IMO = In My Opinion and IMHO = In My Honest Opinion

[bensnacks]

A bit like dancing bears having their teeth
&amp; claws ripped out.........yea lovely [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img]
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	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[Boa_Master]

Thanks guys for the info. Just to make sure im clear here. Its not because I CANT handle a &quot;hot&quot; I would love to have a copperhead and a rattlesnake but since these #$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^& state laws say NO I cant own any. So PLEASE dont put me down for this I was just curious and thought maybe it would be a little different. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img]
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[najaboy]

I'm not putting you down for asking the question BoaMaster. On the contrary, I'm glad you did ask, because it encourages the exchange of information.

My statements about responsibility were merely a broad generalization, and were not directed towards you personally.
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	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

Thanx for setting forth that clarification Najaboy [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
I woulda gone off on a major ranting if I had.. lol

I think of it almost in comparison to...
I HATE CATS SCRATCHING, BUT I WANTED ONE.. SO I GOT ONE AND DECLAWED IT..ARGHHH

OOPS BETTER TURN THAT RANT THING OFF...i'M OUTTA HERE...
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	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[JuliusSqueezer]

I just don't get it...with all the thousands of colubrids and boids out there that make great pets just as they are...what possible good could it do to butcher a hot to make it more suitable for a pet to someone who obviously has no regard for the animal's well being and only want's it to impress his/her &quot;easy to ammuse&quot; friends? Are these the same people by chance that buy 4 cylander Mustangs and then put 5.0 decals on em thinking they can fool people?
[addsig]

Well in Boamaster's case it seems that he's looking to keep a ven but it's illegal where he is...BUT I do have a question in relation to that even.. Are you allowed to keep hots with a permit where you live ? Of course long as you get the experience you need in order to do such also [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> I just don't get it...with all the thousands of colubrids and boids out there that make great pets just as they are...what possible good could it do to butcher a hot to make it more suitable for a pet to someone who obviously has no regard for the animal's well being and only want's it to impress his/her &quot;easy to ammuse&quot; friends? </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

Think ya hit on it Juls 110% I actually see no other reason for a &quot;need&quot; to mutilate an animal just for the sake of keeping it. Especially when like you have said..there's plenty of others to choose from to keep even [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]
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[Reticu-Lady]

Lori - Bingo!!!
I hate the declaw surgery! If you love your cat, then love it enough to protect your furniture/walls, etc. Same with snakes, if you love the hots - love them for what they are, an animal that has evolved into something that can begin digesting their food before they ingest it. They are fascinating animals that should NOT be altered on a whim. Gee, my oldest daughter smarts off and whines alot, can I have her 'de-barked?' (Something I will not even do to my dogs, although at times it's tempting! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] ) Animlas were not put on this earth to be mutilated on a whim for profit, or for any reason.
Have any of you seen a declaw surgery? Total butchery, if you ask me! It's brutal! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_mad.gif[/img] Same with de-barking, I can only imagine with sort of horrible agony a snake must endure to become a venomoid. *shudder* [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]
[addsig]

OK..here I am moving posts into the correct forums and I have been into this one a few times..but I linked in through the left side bar of the last 5 posts and didn't even notice that this one is in the redtail section....Sooo now it's getting moved to the vens forum [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]

Justme.. I think the cat declawing thing could be comparable to the torture involving bamboo under the fingernails possibly [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]
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	Venomous Reptile A term commonly used to refer to a venomous reptile. Most commonly used in reference to venomous snakes.

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[JuliusSqueezer]

lol guess I was doing the same thing
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[SteveJor]

Hey Boa Master, is that the snake Floyd Garrison is selling? He also has a beautiful female venemoid pygmy rattler for sale. Still has the glands but had a ductectomy. Very minute chance of regeneration but the chance is still there.
Venemoids are still considered venemous under state laws. If they are bred, they produce hot offspring. I did a little checking on these when I first heard about them. In order to keep a venemoid, you need the same permit as you would with a hot snake.
If you can't keep hots in your state, you won't be able to legally keep a venemoid. HTH.
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[Reticu-Lady]

Lori and Julius, you are sort of correct in the bamboo torture comparison. With a declaw surgery, it isn't just the claw that is removed, the entire first knuckle is amputated. Quite a few cats become infected from this surgery, since it is almost impossible to sterilize it. Those poor cats have to walk, jump, do the litter box thing and all with those mutilated paws. Quite often, little bone chips are left inside the sheath causing pain. Try to imagine having the first knuckle of all your fingers removed, then try to walk on all fours while they heal. People are some of the most inhumane creatures alive on this planet.
Debarking is pretty barbaric as well, the dog's jaws are cranked open and the surgeon literally punches holes in the larnyx to cause the barks to sound like whispers. Very bloody surgery. Not for the weak stomached person to witness. (same with ear crops, etc)
I am guessing the snakes go through the same insult. It's a sick and heartbreaking thing.
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[Jack_Daniels]

I have a bird dog named morgan, and the #$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^& thing kept chasing birds for some reason... anyways I just got a shoe horn, and popped his eyes out of there sockets.... problem solved [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img]

&quot;I&quot; have the ability.... &quot;I&quot; have a problem... &quot;I&quot; will solve the problem because so that &quot;I&quot; no longer suffer..... who am &quot;I&quot; concerend for/with?... so draw your conclusion on whether or not &quot;I&quot; should be the care taker of any life, other then &quot;mine&quot;....

......Personally I thought the 'venomoid' thing was a singular/plural type thing... Cactus/Cacti etc... Ive been asked by 'nonherpers' if its possible to remove the venom 'sacks' or the 'fangs'... I always answered 'in theory' yes... I had no clue that this was actually going on...

Where's the animal rights dip**its on this one?... John Doe cant keep a snake because it grows past 3 feet....but Jack Schmack can cut out organs...pry out 'teeth'....and keep all of them he wants?...... feel good to get bent over a table by 'authority' does it......? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif[/img]
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