Recomend a first hot??

Dragonfly · #1 (**permalink**) 12-09-2002, 10:04 PM

I have been considering moving inot hots a little bit. I have quite a bit of expereience with snakes and lizards, but no hot experience. I have researched signifagently, and am considring a Canebrake(timber) rattler.
Would everyone agree that this is a good first hot, and if not what would you recommend?

Ultimately I would like to raise and breed Gaboon Vipers, and milk them for the Venom. I figure that this will be atleast 10yrs off, after I have signifigant hot experience.

Any help you guys could give would be great
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BWSmith · #2 (**permalink**) 12-09-2002, 10:19 PM

Chances are that you will not be able to work with hots for a living. A career in herps (particularly venomous) is pretty rare. And Gaboons are HARD to pin! They have the longest fangs (over 2 inches!) and they can swing them out the side of their mouth and nail you! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] About the only "safe" way to pin one (if their is such a thing as safe pinning) is to wrap the fangs over the handle of a hook or something. Very dangerous snakes.

As far as a first hot, if you look through the threads on this forum, ther have been several posts relating to the subject. I don't think a Canebrake would be a good first hot simply because the bite can very easily be fatal. Also the variations in venom compositions of individuals varies so greatly that it makes the results of a bite very unpredictable. I have had a Canebrake strike at my face with so much force that it was actually dragging the rattle behind it! Generally, you want to start with something that is considered nonlethal like a Copperhead.

Keeping venomous is dangerous! You can lose life and/or limb in the blink of an eye. I would read every post on the entire venomous forum if i were you, especially the first one. Join the Southeastern Hot Herp Society and try to get some experience and expand your knowledge base. Most of this has already been addressed in this forum repeatedly, so be sure to go through and read every post, even if it doesn't seem pertinant, we have a habit of thowing tidbits of wisdom in even the most trivial posts.
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Dragonfly · #3 (**permalink**) 12-10-2002, 12:07 AM

I in no way plan to make my living from milking Gaboons, but either wat that is so far in the future I am not to worried about it as of yet.

I have read many of the posts and spoken to a lot of people that are experienced hot keepers.
One reason I have been considering the Canebrake rattler is that they are native to this area, and almost every hospital around has anti-venom(preparing for the worst).

As far as the Cottonmouth, I know little about it. I guess that I will research a little bit on it.
Either way it will probobly be atleast a year until I keep my first hot.
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najaboy · #4 (**permalink**) 12-10-2002, 12:51 AM

Just to echo what BW said, a canebrake would not be a good choice for a first hot. A copperhead would be a far better choice, as their bite is a bit more forgiving. If you make a mistake, you'll definitely be in a great deal of pain, and may even lose a finger, but you most likely won't die.

Treatment, which most insurance companies will not cover, wiould be far cheaper. Consider that a vial of CroFab costs about $750, and that even a mild envenomation by a timber requires a dozen vials. Add to this, the variosu medical fees, and you have a rather substantial bill.

Moving on, I must ask what your motivation would be for wanting to extract venom from gaboons?To be quite blunt, no venom lab would purchase it, as it would be worthless for both anti-venom and research purposes. That is, of course, unless you plan to invest several hundered thousand dollars in the necessary equipment.
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Dragonfly · #5 (**permalink**) 12-10-2002, 03:58 AM

I know they make Gaboon anti-venom, if they dont use the real milked venom than how are they making anti-venom? Like I said before this is more than 10yrs off, just goals for now. Plans might and probobly will change as time goes on.

I suppose I will cross the canebrake off my list and look at the cottonmouth. does anyone have any links to some info on the snake??
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talon · #6 (**permalink**) 12-10-2002, 04:05 AM

Am i crazy but aren't a copperhead and a cotton mouth aka "water moccasin" different snakes? -Not ready for hots [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]
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deadboy · #7 (**permalink**) 12-10-2002, 04:13 AM

yea they are different snakes. dont know y he keeps puttin cottonmouth instead of copperhead

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Ed_r · #8 (**permalink**) 12-10-2002, 04:14 AM

Yes talon they are different snakes. a Cottomouth is definately not a good first hot. A Cottonmouth can deliver a fatal envenomation. Ask BWSmith why his big female is called PK And trust me its not for Passionate Kiss.
No one should keep hots for pets. There is no need for it. If you do education then its different.
Sorry I like living. worst I would probably ever get is a Copperhead, or a Pygmie Rattler. Neither one is really considered life threatening. But a bite will still screw you up pretty good.

And if you don't know the difference between a Cottonmouth and a Copperhead, please do not consider hots anymore. Yet alone a Gaboon.
_________________
A man's life is like a 3 ring circus: 1st the Enagagement Ring, 2nd the Wedding Ring, 3rd the Suffer Ring!!!

storm · #9 (**permalink**) 12-10-2002, 04:15 AM

Yeah, there's quite a big difference between the cottonmouth and the copperhead. As i understand, the difference is that the first can kill you, whereas the second just makes you wish you were dead...
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BWSmith · #10 (**permalink**) 12-10-2002, 04:17 AM

You are correct, a copper and a cotton are VERY different.

And they DO use venom to produce AV, but as Naja said, it has to be done perfectly to be of any use so it requires a great deal of very expensive equipment. You basically have to have a lab and get yourself known as a major supplier. Venom is not something you can throw up on Ebay [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] Basically, there are plenty of people supplying venom at the moment (I have talked to several venom labs and AV producers).

I do know of a very good care sheet for copperheads. But it our policy here not to post caresheets. If you take the advice I gave you earlier, you will find it VERY easily, it will be staring you in the face. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
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najaboy · #11 (**permalink**) 12-10-2002, 04:52 AM

As I said, unless you plan to spend upwards of $300,000 just for equipment, the venom you colect would be absolutely worthless for both antivenom and research.

Nobody will purchase raw venom- it's about as valuable to a lab as tap water. Your going to need to invent in centrifuges, freeeze dryers, industrial freezers, and lots of liquid nitrogen. Furthermore, don't forget that lyophilization will be necessary in order to stabilize the venom for transportation or storage. Since venom is generally purchased in fractions, you're going to have to separate the venom by electrophoresis using starch gel columns.

Of course, there's the added expense of snakes. You're going to need at least two dozen gaboons to produce even a negligible quantity of venom. You'll also have to be licensed by the USDA & FDA,

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