Suitability as a first hot?

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I have been toying with the idea of getting a hot, and have heard various stories about white-lip tree vipers (Trimeresurus albolabris).
1. Are they suitable as a first "hot"?
2. How dangerous is their venom?
3. There is not a lot of info on the net on white-lips- do they require any special
set-up, apart from obviously being arboreal?
If anyone has kept them or knows about them, could they please help me out.


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	Arboreal Arboreal is a word meaning "related to or resembling trees". Its meaning comes from the Latin arbor, meaning tree.<br> In biology, an arboreal animal is one which inhabits or spends large amounts of time in trees or bushes.

[Ravnos]

I have one, and I don't think they are suitable as a starter at all.

Firstly, in the wild they are largerly lizard eaters. In captivity this ends up making them fussy feeders. They have to be weaned over to mice, and even after being weaned over, many have been known to hold out for lizards sometimes. It can be extremely frustrating.

Second, they are arboreal and require certain humidity and housing needs. Just like most people would not recommend a green tree python as a starter snake. Have you ever tried to get a green tree python off a perch when it didn't want to go? Try that with something venomous. They are extremely fast, but are workable if you are familiar with arboreals... but not something I would consider for a beginner who is still learning how to hook and control an animal. Especially when getting them off the hook can be just as difficult as getting them out of the cage in the first place. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Not to mention, little things like, mine refuses to drink from a bowl - so I have to constantly have a drip system so he doesn't get dehydrated make them rather annoyingly fussy animals.

Next, their venom's subcutaneous LD50 is 12.75. That effectively makes them hotter than the eastern diamondback at 14.6. While they can't put nearly as much venom into you as an EDB could - trust me, you would definitely regret getting tagged. Especially when the local hospital tells you there is no antivenin available. (Very few places carry it, only zoos that have the species, or the Florida Antivenin Bank) Or worse... they give you something like Crofab out of ignorance - which happens all too often with exotic bites.

Dunno... I would seriously consider another species. After working with mine, I find myself truly appreciating the ease of care involved in most crotalid species. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Rav
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	Arboreal Arboreal is a word meaning "related to or resembling trees". Its meaning comes from the Latin arbor, meaning tree.<br> In biology, an arboreal animal is one which inhabits or spends large amounts of time in trees or bushes.

	Eastern Diamondback Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake

[BWSmith]

Good job Rav. That pretty much covers the White Lip.

BigRed, try checking intot he AV available there. I think you should have a much easier time getting it than us in the states. I would probably stay away from arboreals as a first. My vote is still for the good old fasion Southern Copperhead (not the Australian Copperhead [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] )
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[herm]

Are you ready for a hot? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]
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[bigred]

thanks.
white-lips are available from about $20. eg on www.snakes.co.za (SA site)

"Adult breeding pair ammodytes vipers, have bred before, R2200, White lip vipers X 22 all eating, 2mnths old R200ea or R4000 for all. Ahmed (JHB) contact: 0826776067
I have a pair of adult bamboo tree vipers (popes or white lip) female is gravid all eating mice, wanting R1900 for the pair, the are big adults, i will concider trades on african cobras and elapids.
contact: 0829798080
I have a pair of water moccasins for sale, they are all over a meter, female about 1.4 meters. potentially gravid, wanting R1000 for the pair or a trade for african elapids. contact: 0829798080
I have a pair of chinese mamushis (blomhoffi) that are full adults, eating very well. female may be gravid, looking very fat. for R1600 for the pair or to trade for african cobras and elapids.
contact: 0829798080 "


but I will hold off on the first "hot" for a while longer
herm, I have read the article in depth, and thought really hard about it
one guy I spoke to told me that the white-lips venom would only give me a
headache [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]
apparently not - thanks Ravnos
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[Ravnos]

I can't attest directly to the effects of the venom, I have never been bitten, nor do I plan to - the LD50 is a number aquired in a laboratory situation and is just a relative toxicity when compared to other venoms. The amount of venom the white lip can inject is low simply because of their small size, so that is generally going to mean less effects - but I personally think they should still be taken quite seriously. As a whole package, I don't think they would make a very good starter.

Rav

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