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Old 11-09-2006, 11:13 PM
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The Future of Hot Herping?

This story in Bismarck, North Dakota's state capital:
http://www.bismarcktribune.com/artic...ocal/nws03.txt

A Bismarck legislator wants to make it illegal to possess venomous snakes, spiders and other creatures.

Rep. Margaret Sitte, R-Bismarck, said she is having a bill drafted in response to Bismarck police finding four deadly snakes in an apartment earlier this year.

Sitte said North Dakota law prohibits having skunks, raccoons and wolves, but not venomous animals. By putting the law in place, it would cover cities that don't have ordinances against venomous animals, as well as rural areas.

In July, Bismarck police found four poisonous(sic) snakes -- an East African green mamba, a death adder, an albino monocle cobra and a yellow-bellied racer -- in a Bismarck apartment.

Andrew Greff and Doug Feist were charged with misdemeanor reckless endangerment for having the snakes.

Greff was sentenced to one year with all but six months suspended for having the snakes, and Feist will go to trial on the reckless endangerment charge Jan. 6 (He got the same)

Greff told the Tribune earlier this year that he had purchased the snakes over the Internet and had them delivered via UPS. (Follow-up. Dealer does not verify laws, why you want one, or if you can care for it. Just takes the money and ships the snakes.)

Bismarck ordinances state that "the keeping of dangerous animals is prohibited."

According to the ordinance, "dangerous animals" means animals which, because of their poisonous bite or sting, their size, or their propensity to viciousness or aggressiveness, would constitute a hazard or threat to the safety of the citizens of Bismarck.

The ordinance has exceptions for educational, scientific or research purposes.

Although the bill would allow permits to be given for people keeping venomous animals for educational purposes, Sitte doesn't expect it to pass without a fight.

"It will be controversial because a lot of pet owners want to have them," Sitte said.

Sitte said a constituent asked her to introduce the bill.

The bill is in the process of being drafted, and she is still looking for co-sponsors. She said the bill will include venomous reptiles, arachnids and insects. There will be a special exemption for bees. (Bill only included wording for reptiles. Insects are still legal)

Sen. Ralph Kilzer, R-Bismarck, a co-sponsor, said the bill will make it a Class B misdemeanor to possess the animals included in the bill.

Sitte is working with Terry Lincoln, director of the Dakota Zoo, in how the bill should be worded. Lincoln said the zoo keeps some venomous spiders, but doesn't plan on having venomous snakes. However, Lincoln said he wants to make sure people can have venomous animals if they have a legitimate purpose for them.

Wording of the bill will be important.

Sitte said her bill initially included "poisonous" animals, but that had to be changed to read "venomous" animals.

Lincoln said some animals are poisonous, including the poison dart frog on display at the zoo, but they are not harmful unless they are eaten. A venomous animal is one that will bite, Lincoln said.

Although instances of people being caught with venomous animals are rare in North Dakota, Lincoln said it is surprising how many people have been bitten by venomous pets nationwide. "It's pretty incredible how many instances there are of people getting killed by these types of things."


So....that story turned into this:
NORTH DAKOTA Bill number HB 1326: PASSED

Description: Restricts the Possession of Venomous Reptiles

Summary: Limits the possession of venomous reptiles to those who have obtained a permit from the state veterinarian. Permits would be issued only on a showing that the animal is possessed for educational purposes and that the possessor can properly care for, house, feed, handle and (if necessary) euthanize the animal. Zoos, "wildlife preserves," schools and research facilities would be presumed to meet the educational requirement for a permit. Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor penalty.

Update: This bill passed the House and Senate and was signed into law by the Governor on 04/11/05.
http://www.legis.nd.gov/assembly/59-...t/FAGH0600.pdf

All because of a breeder that wouldn't confirm anything beyond that a check would clear, and an idiot that wouldn't pay attention to city laws. Now they are looking at legislation to make it illegal to own any snake over 6-8 feet long, and legislation that would make it a Class A or B Misdemeanor to ship a venomous snake to a resident in North Dakota (They are pushing for felony status though).

Last edited by toker : 11-14-2006 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 11-10-2006, 01:08 AM
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a yellow bellied racer??


mmmmkay.
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Old 11-10-2006, 01:20 AM
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^^^thats what I was thinking
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Old 11-10-2006, 01:30 AM
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never trust the media to get everything 100% accurate. They used Poisionous a few times when they should have used venomous too, but the point still stands.
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Old 11-10-2006, 01:47 AM
tmlowe5704 tmlowe5704 is offline
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You can't blame it all on that one incident or one breeder. Personally if I were a policeman and went into a house with 4 snakes and didn't know what they were and found they were venomous, I would be a bit worried too. You never know when one could have escaped. I didn't notice a mention on the number of reptiles a permit will allow, but if you have to obtain permits for them all, then so be it. It will keep hots in the hands of responsible herpers. Same goes for the giants. I personally don't want some guy seeing how cool a burm looks and doesn't know anything about it and buys it. Can you say Everglades? Can you say food chain? I know it will be hard to enforce because you can always just have one mailed to you, but still. It is a start. If this is enacted, maybe we would not see so many mistreated rescue burms and retics.

Last edited by tmlowe5704 : 11-10-2006 at 01:49 AM.
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Old 11-10-2006, 01:57 AM
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Actually, we can blame it on this one incident in this case. It was this incident that started the bill rolling. I remember when this happened because it was HUGE news in the state. A murder in the state makes the headlines for at least 3 weeks if not a month. This incident was in the news for easily 2 weeks.
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:08 AM
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Sadly, this is happening more and more across the US. The states that are unregulated will soon be regulated in one way or another. What I suggest to do is to adopt Florida and Louisiana's regulations when it comes to venomous reptiles and "dangerous" wildlife and get a permit system in place. The API and HSUS have spread their baseless and overzealous agenda across the country. Kentucky and New York fell to them recently after they introduced legislation regarding "dangerous wildlife" and it got put into effect. They have tried with North and South Carolina, but have failed, largely due to the efforts of some SHHS members who have actively fought this garbage they try to spew. Unfortunately, there will always be a person who keeps snakes illegally, a dealer who will sell to anyone, and a novice who goes out and gets a cobra as his first hot that has no business even owning a corn snake, let alone a cobra. There are some ways to combat this issue. If you plan on keeping exotic venomous snakes, either stock or have access to proper antivenom. It is really not that hard to obtain yourself. You just need to fill out some FDA applications and get your physician to sign off on the permit application in regards to acquiring antivenom and put some time and effort into it. I personally know two private keepers who stock their own antivenom. That is one of the major issues with keeping exotic venomous, and quite a few people just choice to ignore it. I once knew a keeper who kept some Gaboons, Rhinos, and Neotropical Crotalus spp., and this person did not even know which types of antivenoms to use in the event of a bite, let alone, have a snakebite protocol in place!! Just a few years ago, the venomous community was a rather small, tight knit community of keepers who were very low key. It has now become more mainstream with the amount of people that are getting into it these days. We all as keepers need to uphold the highest possible level of integrity, responsibility, and professionalism, which is also, something that is also sorely lacking these days. If there anyway I can help, please do not hesitate to contact me.


Last edited by FLVenom : 11-10-2006 at 02:10 AM.
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:11 AM
GaryO GaryO is offline
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Get involved! I got involved with the ohio bill and I have played a role in it. A good role. The bill was drafted becuiase a bear killed it's owner.

I went to them with facts. And how this would hurt the business owners in ohio making them move out of state. They wanted to listen then.

Get involved. It is good posting here and all but you should be on the phone emailing and writing letters..............
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:14 AM
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Thanks Joe, that saved me alot of typing.
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:22 AM
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LOL, no problemo.
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:29 AM
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