Spitting cobras

[Kohm]

I've been wondering. What do you do if you get spat at by a spitting cobra?

I know you should rinse it out, but is it wise to use urine as some people have suggested? What is hospital treatment for a spit like? Must antivenin be used as well? How much venom is ejected at one go?

There are a lot of naja sumatrana near where I live in Singapore (and we can't legally keep herps except some turtles here) and I've run into them before, though they just kind of scurry away. They are most probably one of the more common snakes w have here after retics.

I'm looking for more info on the sumatranas cos they don't seem to be very well known, and apparently there is no antivenin for them either. How "hot" are they?

Thanx.

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[Bry]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> There are a lot of naja sumatrana near where I live in Singapore (and we can't legally keep herps except some turtles here) and I've run into them before, though they just kind of scurry away. They are most probably one of the more common snakes w have here after retics. </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think I will ever hear myself say anything like that in my life time. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Bry
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[biff]

The venom, if sprayed into the eyes, should be washed out with copious amounts of water. I think the biggest key to recovery is to wash the venom out with some innocuous liquid as soon as possible. Undoubtably their venom is very necrotic and they probably produce large amounts of it.

I would think a hospital would only use a/v for a very severe case. Most eye cases would probably be treated by analgesic drops and thorough flushing of the eyes.

Good luck,
Steve
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[pincess_wy]

Kohm,

Singapore!? That's cool... I've got family over there.
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[Extreme]

Getting sprayed in the eyes is not as bad as you would think. The only danger is if you do not have access to water or something to wash it off with. I have been sprayed a time or two without my goggles on. It is painful but if you just wash it off imediately it is ok. Also, injesting the venom it not dangerous either. I did get hit once with my mouth open. Tastes horrible and your tongue kind of goes numb for a while but that is about it. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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[BWSmith]

Cobra venom is generally primarily neurotoxic. Thus, I do not think that the necrosis would be too horrible compared to other species. TMK, when a spitter nails you in the eye, about all you can do is rinse with as much water as possible being sure to hold your eye open with one hand so that you rinse the eyeball too. The areas where the venom hits around the eyes may become irritated, swell, or develop a rash. I had some venom from a 6' Black Neck Spitter get on my arm and it turned red withing minutes and was very irritated for aout a day. As for the AV and envenomation treatment, I will have to go through my literature for that. it is a pretty obscure species. I would assume that protocol would be similar to most elapid envenomations. A pressure bandage (not a turniquet) I would think would be a very good idea.
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	neurotoxin Neurotoxin is a toxin that acts specifically on nerve cells – neurons – usually by interacting with membrane proteins and ion channels.

[BWSmith]

ok. I was mistaken. (it was bound to happen eventually [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img] )

Spitter venom is very necrotic. When I began to think about it, it makes sense. When the venom is used for defense, while snot being injected, it naturally would have to be a powerful irritant.

&quot;necrosis often is the chief or only manifestation of envenoming in humans. Occasionally, a combination of neurologic dysfunction and tissue necrosis is observed.&quot;


found this pic on herafauna.com

I have not been able to find LD50's for this species or much detailed info on specific treatment of Asian Spitters. But now I am curious. I am going to send out a few emails to venom researchers I know and see if they have any more detailed info.

Kohm, Can I com herping at your house? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
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[Ed_r]

hahaha. Just wait til you get get married you'll be told often how much your mistaken. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img]
Killer pic of the cobra. Are spitters know to bite allot? So far everytime i see them they either just hood up and spit like mad and never seem to try to bite. Or are so placid that they never even hood up. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]
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[BWSmith]

The only two spitters that I have worked with are Black Necks and Rinkhals. The Black necks never stuck, just spit a lot. The Rinkhals would spray and hit the glass too. Just from my own experience, i would have to say.................... I have no idea what is normal [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>I have not been able to find LD50's for this species or much detailed info on specific treatment of Asian Spitters. </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

From what I can gather, this species has been mis-named for quite a while and it is probably listed under a different name.

This site has a &quot;conversion table&quot; for misnamed

Based on it, I would say that this guy's LD50 is gonna be right there with the Monocoled or Spectacled...i.e. 0.350 - 0.373 IV

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[BWSmith]

It is a tough call. Do we go by other aisian species or other spitter species?

Naja nigricollis is LD50 0.63 IV (Black Neck Spitter)
Naja oxiana is LD50 0.96 IV (Central Asian Cobra)
Naja atra LD5 0.345 IV (Chinese Cobra)

It is hard to tell. There is a great degree of variation in potency in the Asian Elapids. So do we take a guess based on locality or function. Logically the locality should have a lot to do with it. But also the function of the venom (spitters are very specialized creatures) logically has a gret deal to do with it. I don't know. There is a tremendous variation within a genus.If there is no information, this cjould be someones doctoral thesis
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[StaticKaos]

All i know about em is from Croc Hunter on Animal Planet,lol.. But he was messin wit em 1 day an was sure 2 wear saftey goggles..Even if the venom hits your skin it REALLY burns.. He got hit in tha eyes because they have REALLY good accuracy an immediatly washed it out with water. It worked well for him (on camera, dunno about what he did off).. He washed it off very thorough an then went on about his buisness but he said it stung for the rest of that trip.
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[Kohm]

Hello everyone,

thanks for replying. BW, nice pix. I think the pale specimens are from thailand and further up north. In singapore, they are dead black except for a grey neck band. they are sometimes mixed up or combined with naja sputatrix, the indonesian spitter. They used to be known as n. n. sputatrix until naja naja was split up into a few species.

[img]null[/img][img]Black Spitting Cobra.JPG[/img]

I took this at our zoo, but I haven't managed to get a good shot of a wild one yet.
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[Kohm]

Sorry everyone, technical error.



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People that like a good sun tan have more reptilian brain than others ...

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[BWSmith]

Send me a plane ticket and i'll come help you find them [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
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[LdyDrgn]

Hey Kohm, Geocities won't let you post pics...better to post links instead:

Black Spitting Cobra


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[Kohm]

Black Spitting Cobra
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[Kohm]

Ok, I finally got a link to printroom. I think this should be good. Can someone try it and tell me if it works? My modem is getting very ssssslow.

BW, you're welcome any time, except I'm afraid I can't afford a plane ticket at the moment. But I'll post more pix. I think I'm getting the hang of printroom.

And to start another branch of discussion if nobody minds, some naja kaothia are known as &quot;lazy spitters&quot;, that's what I heard. Apparently they can spit, but not very well. Anybody knows anything about this.

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[Seany]

Well, I'm from Israel... will be going back in a couple of years. We have all the vipers you could ever ask for and you're all more than welcome over. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img]
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[XzyluM]

The pic works fine, but the size is way to small to see anything, only about an 1&quot; x 1&quot; pics.
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