Venomoid?

[RogueReptile]

I've never kept venomous, but I do know that venomoid snakes go through a painful and even deadly surgery. On the kingsnake.com/ classifieds there are always tons of venomoids listed.
So, why do veterinarians perform this procedure?
Also, why do hot keepers have this procedure done if it is looked upon so poorly?

	Venomoid Venomoid surgery is the removal of venom glands. It is an operation to alter the functions of a snake, not an operation aimed at altering it's appearance. The measurable and desired effect is that the snake no longer produces venom.

[Dr.Oviparous]

A lot of times the surgery is not done by a vet. A lot of the venomoids out there are just hacked up by individuals with minimal anotomical knowlege. No respectable/responsible hot owner would have it done.

	Venomoid Venomoid surgery is the removal of venom glands. It is an operation to alter the functions of a snake, not an operation aimed at altering it's appearance. The measurable and desired effect is that the snake no longer produces venom.

[Ed_r]

99.99% of the time the surgery is done in a persons basement or garage, in very unsterile conditions. No vets known do the surgeries. Or at least none will ever admit to doing them.

[BWSmith]

I am aware of only one vet that perform surgury. Most of the procedures are performed by unqualified individuals in their garage or other unsuitable environment with improper medication and pain management.

I will leave it at that for now. It is early and i am not in a ranting mood.

[RogueReptile]

Thank you for your quick replies, It was just a question I had after seeing so many ads for them.

[sjt1985]

what type of surgery? and what does it do ?

[BWSmith]

It is a surgury that removes the venom glands and/or venom ducts to attempt to eliminate the capability to deliver venom.

[aesailor7575]

some times they done get the venom glade out and they heal.

[BWSmith]

Originally Posted by dirt_jumper

when you say "to attempt to eliminate the capability to deliver venom," do you mean that they can still kill you even though they can't produce venom or what?

There have been documented cases of regeneration and envenomation. It is my understanding that the specifics will be published in the near future.

[MustangRde1]

For the record numerous medical research institutes including The United States Department of Agriculture have done numerous studies on Reparative Regeneration using reptiles as part of their experiments and have found that it can and does occur. This includes and is not limited to reptilian and amphibians.

Many of the studies indicate a degree of both organ and tissue regeneration.

Regeneration is defined as the replacement, repair or restoration of lost or damaged structures or reconstitution of the whole body from a small fragment of it during the post-embryonic life.

There are two main types:
Reparative Regeneration: This type is limited to the repair or healing of injuries, and it takes place by localized cell proliferation and migration. This is seen both in vertebrates and invertebrates.

Restorative Regeneration: It is the replacement of lost body parts. It is rare among vertebrates but common in invertebrates.

EXAMPLES OF REGENERATION ABILITY IN DIFFERENT ANIMALS
The degree of this ability differs in the various groups of animals. Following are some examples from invertebrates:

Protozoans: If an Amoeba is cut into parts each containing a piece of the nucleus, the parts grow into complete individuals.

Sponges: Any part of the body can be cut off or injured and it will be readily repaired, e.g., Sycon.

Coelenterates: A Hydra may be cut into many bits, and each part will regenerate into a complete individual of smaller size. The posterior end will regenerate the mouth and tentacles; the anterior part regenerates the foot and adhesive disc.

In vertebrates, the regenerative power is quite restricted. In fish, the tail does not regenerate. In reptiles it does.
Regenerative power is most spectacular in the urodele amphibians. In newts and salamanders, limbs, tails, external gills, upper and lower jaws, parts of the eye (iris, retina) can regenerate.

In mammals, regenerative ability is restricted to tissue regeneration i.e., the restoration of defects and lesions in various tissues but not the restoration of lost organs.

The only exception is the liver in mammals. If a part of it is removed, the remaining portion grows by repeated division to full size, but the normal shape is not restored. Likewise, if one kidney is removed, the other enlarges to take over the function of the missing kidney. This is called compensatory hypertrophy.

There are numerous studies to this end.

Regarding venomoid surgery if the organ IS NOT fully removed it has the potential to regenerate or more accurately Restore itself to a partial use. We do have evidence of many cases of ductal regeneration in which the animal was capable of delivering venom through the duct again.

Just because something has not to some peoples views been credibly scientifically proven does not mean by and means it cannot happen. The evidence especially in the reptile and amphibian families show all to often exactly how much these animals can do to repair damage done to their bodies and or in reproduction.

If the surgery is done completely and correctly the odds remain low of any regeneration. However it is still an IF and I for one am not willing to bet my or my families life on an IF.

There are as of this date 3 confirmed envenomations from supposed venomoids snakes. 1 in Miami Florida. 1 in Liverpool and 1 in Germany. Why is there not more? Simple, Under the medical coding system a snake bite is is broken down as follows

Bite
animal NEC E906.5
other specified (except arthropod) E906.3
venomous NEC E905.9
arthropod (nonvenomous) NEC E906.4
venomous - see Sting
black widow spider E905.1
cat E906.3
centipede E905.4
cobra E905.0
copperhead snake E905.0
coral snake E905.0
dog E906.0
fer de lance E905.0
gila monster E905.0
human being
accidental E928.3
assault E968.7
insect (nonvenomous) E906.4
venomous - see Sting
krait E905.0
late effect of - see Late effect
lizard E906.2
venomous E905.0
mamba E905.0
marine animal
nonvenomous E906.3
snake E906.2
venomous E905.6
snake E905.0
millipede E906.4
venomous E905.4
moray eel E906.3
rat E906.1
rattlesnake E905.0
rodent, except rat E906.3
serpent - see Bite, snake
shark E906.3
snake (venomous) E905.0
nonvenomous E906.2
sea E905.0
spider E905.1
nonvenomous E906.4
tarantula (venomous) E905.1
venomous NEC E905.9
by specific animal - see category E905
viper E905.0
water moccasin E905.0

You will see there is no CODE FOR VENOMOID so it has to be call venomous. and lets face it if it injects venom it is hot, no matter what the person selling it may have told you.

Unless the bite recieves media attention and it is told to them it was a venomoid which by the way is not a true word then it is concidered venomous. With the growing market for these altered cornsnakes it is only a matter of time before we start hearring more and more bite accounts. Ofcourse the proponants for these altered animals will claim bad surgery is the case. Well to me the simple fact is no surgery and no risk would have prevented it. A venomoid owner would not treat a hot the same as his new pet cornsnake thus he wouldnt have had the hot to begin with.