Venomoids and Herpetoculture

[BWSmith]

Just starting a new thread.

How do you think that the increased availability and popularity of venomoids are going to affect the hobby of herpetoculture in the near future? I have seen a tremendous increase in the number venomoids available and have seen several dealers that seem to deal almost exclusively with the sale of venomoids.

For those who dont know....

A venomoid is a venomous reptile which has had either the venom ducts severed and cauderized or the venom producing glands removed. Often, in the case of Vipers particularly, a silicone implant is replaced where the gland was to retain the shap of the head. These animals WILL produce venomous offspring as it is a surgery, not a trait. For most venomous reptiles, particularly vipers with a high concentration of hemotoxins (those affecting the circulatory system) the venom is a way of helping to digest a meal. Often digestive enzymes are present in the venom. Additionally, these animals MUST eat only prekilled food items, as their means of securing food has been taken away. Many animals, as most of you probably know, are rather difficult to switch to Prekilled food items. Often when dealers sell these snakes, the terms "tame" or "handleable" are included in the ad. To see some ads, refer to the kingsnake.com venomous classifieds. Here you can see several dealers who sell venomoids almost exclusively and are breeding venomous for the express purpose of turning them into venomoids.

Please post your own thoughts and opinions, please do not just copy and paste what someone else has said. I will give my thoughts and opinions later.



[addsig]

	Venomoid Venomoid surgery is the removal of venom glands. It is an operation to alter the functions of a snake, not an operation aimed at altering it's appearance. The measurable and desired effect is that the snake no longer produces venom.

	hemotoxin are toxins that destroy red blood cells (that is, cause hemolysis), disrupt blood clotting, and/or cause organ degeneration and generalized tissue damage. The term hemotoxin is to some degree a misnomer since toxins that damage the blood also damage other tissues.<br> Hemotoxins are frequently seen in venomous animals, such as pit vipers. Animal venoms contain enzymes and other proteins that are hemotoxic or neurotoxic or occasionally both (as in the Mojave Rattlesnake and similar species). In addition to killing the prey, part of the function of a hemotoxic venom for some animals is to aid digestion.The venom breaks down protein in the region of the bite, making prey easier to digest.

[eddie]

Here's the link to the KingSnake Venomous Classifieds.
[addsig]

[JuliusSqueezer]

I am against altering any animal's natural gifts for the purpose of making them a better pet for idiots. While there are a few valid scientific research reasons for creating venomoids, household pet market does not come to mind. I would love to see the statistics of mortality for both surgery fatalities and long term slow deaths due to feeding/digestion problems...especially in pit vipers and other mainly hemotoxin producing vens. If one snake dies as a result of this or becomes poor from metabolism problems, then none were the effort for the pet trade. Weigh it against the lives of herpers that may have otherwise died from the pet's bite? So what? It isn't like there weren't some 2800 or so choices of colubrids and boids to choose from. Darwinism...nuf said.
[addsig]

	Venomous Reptile A term commonly used to refer to a venomous reptile. Most commonly used in reference to venomous snakes.

	Venomoid Venomoid surgery is the removal of venom glands. It is an operation to alter the functions of a snake, not an operation aimed at altering it's appearance. The measurable and desired effect is that the snake no longer produces venom.

	hemotoxin are toxins that destroy red blood cells (that is, cause hemolysis), disrupt blood clotting, and/or cause organ degeneration and generalized tissue damage. The term hemotoxin is to some degree a misnomer since toxins that damage the blood also damage other tissues.<br> Hemotoxins are frequently seen in venomous animals, such as pit vipers. Animal venoms contain enzymes and other proteins that are hemotoxic or neurotoxic or occasionally both (as in the Mojave Rattlesnake and similar species). In addition to killing the prey, part of the function of a hemotoxic venom for some animals is to aid digestion.The venom breaks down protein in the region of the bite, making prey easier to digest.

[Ravnos]

My experience with venomoids is that the surgery is done frequently by some hack who might as well have done the work with a chainsaw. Its an operation that has, as far as I can tell, no real standardized procedure in the vetrinary field so every doctor goes about it how every they feel is best.

The long and short of it, its just a way for inexperienced and insecure keepers to keep animals that they otherwise should not even be considering possessing. I think it leads to a gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation of the animal. There was a venomoid Bushmaster at the Hamburg show. I can't believe that someone would take an animal that incredible and try to turn it into a cornsnake.

I dunno... it will always be a heated debate.

Rav

[addsig]

	Venomoid Venomoid surgery is the removal of venom glands. It is an operation to alter the functions of a snake, not an operation aimed at altering it's appearance. The measurable and desired effect is that the snake no longer produces venom.

[JuliusSqueezer]

Another thought on this...

The types of people who buy and/or keep venomoids are the showoff types that are just out to impress a friend or two with what they are "brave" enough to handle. These people will not properly house or care for the animal ... They will subject it to undue stress anytime their beer drinking buddies are over. Should these idiots be catered to? NO....I don't care how much money is involved...we do not need these fools in the herp society at all.
[addsig]

	Venomoid Venomoid surgery is the removal of venom glands. It is an operation to alter the functions of a snake, not an operation aimed at altering it's appearance. The measurable and desired effect is that the snake no longer produces venom.

[BWSmith]

I actually got to work with that Bushmaster when it was still hot. It belonged to a friend of mine and got traded at the Hamburg show. Unfortunately, we had no idea what was in store for this magnificant creature. I am only glad that he survived. When you deal with a species that there are probably less than 50 specimens of in the US (outside of Dean Ripa's collection), it is not hard to know where the animals go. Julius has a snake now that was in my collection at one point, and I know of 3 other people wh had her. At least now she has a permanent home. (sorry, a little off topic)
[addsig]

I personally think it is stupid and idiotic. To me it's akin to declawing and defanging a tiger for a pet. If you cannot deal with it the way it comes from mother nature, you've got no business having it.

Once again, the power of the almighty dollar reigns supreme.
[addsig]