Argentine B&W Questions

[LizardLover]

I love big lizards, and I'd like something a bit more "naturally tame" than the typical green iguana. I started researching and learned about Argentine Black & White Tegus, and from what I have learned so far, they seem to be my perfect "dream lizard."

I was wondering what the difference is between the typical Argentine B&W Tegu and the Chacoan White Headed strain that is seen on the St. Pierre website? Temperment differences? Size? Intelligence?

Does Bert Langerwerf also offer the Chacoan White Headed strain? Becase I didn't see it on the Agama International website.

Can anyone tell me exactly what the difference between these two strains is and which strain they would recommend and why? (And also which breeder) they would recommend please.)

Thanks!

	Iguana Iguana

[NicoleRussell]

I recommend Bert above all breeders.
Ay yes he sells chacoan tegus....they are typically larger and have a white head. Other then that their personalities are the same.

[TheOtherAndy]

I had to chuckle a little at this one. Argentine Tegus are not "naturally tame". Certainly no more so than a green ig. Their temperments vary considerably, and some will never be the puppy dog lizard people want. Some will, and some are downright evil. They seem to be a little smarter than igs, but not as smart as monitors. Their care is mostly straightforward, but they do have shedding problems if you aren't careful. They're probably the best choice for people who want a big lizard who acts like a dog, but this is by no means guaranteed (yes, even if you handle it a lot). On the other side of the coin, an angry or scared tegu can straight make a mess of you, way more so than an ig. They use those huge jaws to crack snail shells, y'know. Of all the lizards I've been bit by, they pack the worst punch. And that was with gloves on. lol

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

[LizardLover]

LOL True - no lizard is naturally tame. Any animal that needs to be tamed is certainly not that way naturally!
But I was referring to the general temperment of the species.

Your comment about the intelligence of monitors was interesting. I have generally avoided monitors because the only one I've ever met was really nasty. (Think it was a Nile Monitor.) What has your experience with monitors been like?

[TheOtherAndy]

I meant that in the context of 'general temperment' when it comes to tegus. Mine was a berserker, and I know a guy with four that run the gamut from berserker to puppy dog. Of course, if you ask, people will say they are generally mellow. Therein lies the problem. But on to monitors...

My personal experience is mostly with V. albigularis, V. salvator, and V. acanthurus. Most people will tell you that these are all pretty laid back species, but of mine only the albig had a 'friendly' personality. The salvator, generally thought to be the nicest routinely left me bleeding (when I could catch him). One of my ackies would sit on my shoulder while I checked my email, but his brother would run out of their burrow and attack my hands when I changed their water. There are also plenty of tame nile monitors out there, despite the reputation they have.

Monitors are by far the most intelligent reptiles currently roaming planet earth. This has to do with them being active foragers rather than ambush predators. Generally, the bigger they get, the smarter they are, as the smarter their prey is. They seem to have a knack for remembering things. There are lots of neat stories about stuff like this in the scientific lit (and there is actually a lot for albigularis and salvator).

This kind of comes together on the issue of 'taming'. You can try your best to desensitize a monitor to handling, but many of them don't take well to it (in which case that uncanny memory can come back to haunt you). A better approach in the long run is actually to handle them as little as possible. In time it will realize you aren't going to harm it, and in the case of my albig, will trust you to do whatever you want with it. I used to know a lady that actually put little cowboy hats on her massive adult niles (sad as it was, imo).

The feeding response of a healthy adult monitor is something else entirely. I had to give my sweet albig up, and the guy who got him agreed he was the most personable monitor he'd met. Unfortunately, he went into his room/enclosure wearing white socks one day and had a 6.5ft, 25lb puppy dog grab his foot and try to rip his toe off. =)

Monitors are a mixed bag, indeed.

	In My Opinon IMO = In My Opinion and IMHO = In My Honest Opinion

[NicoleRussell]

I really have never heard from any reptutable source about a captive bred, healthy argentine tegu being nasty. Both of mine were literally tame out of the shipping box and they were already a year old...with very little human interaction.

[TheOtherAndy]

Originally Posted by NicoleRussell

I really have never heard from any reptutable source about a captive bred, healthy argentine tegu being nasty.

I actually only know about one that is outright aggressive "chase you down" type nasty. Most I've encountered were of the "we're cool as long as you don't pick me up" variety.

Me and my loser herp buddies are anything but reputable, but in Bert's video (neat stuff btw), he has to snatch them by the neck to pick them up, and in the 9/98 issue of Reptiles, there is a pic of a flippy tegu being picked up that belongs to no less than 'Slash' of Guns N' Roses fame! Are you telling me this guy isn't credible?!



(yes, I had too much coffee this morning, sorry )

[DragonRyu]

i've noticed a few breeders and owners trying to pick up tegus by the neck. when i asked them about it, they told me it was because they feed their tegus live mice which causes them to become slightly more aggresive and sometimes associate your hand with food. because of that they have to grab the tegu at first so it wont go for the hand but after it found out they didnt have any food it was fine. i've asked a few people and what the general concenous is, is that if you feed the tegu frozen/thawed mice instead of live, and feed it out of a food bowl, it wont associate your hand with food, or at least not as much, and you wont have to worry about it trying to bite your hand as often.

[NicoleRussell]

Originally Posted by TheOtherAndy

Me and my loser herp buddies are anything but reputable, but in Bert's video (neat stuff btw), he has to snatch them by the neck to pick them up, and in the 9/98 issue of Reptiles, there is a pic of a flippy tegu being picked up that belongs to no less than 'Slash' of Guns N' Roses fame! Are you telling me this guy isn't credible?!

I have Bert's video too He's great.
Yeah Bert does not work on taming the breeders he has--and as the tegu approaches it's 2nd year you have to work at it. I'll post some pictures of Nico my male at the little girls preschool this month. He's really a sweetheart.
The only time I have seen anything negative is when an animal was trying to recooperate from a bad situation of some kind (illness, rehabilitation because of bad past husbandry, trauma etc)...then they can become very isolated and will let you know they do not want any contact.
My female got loose in NY as a juvie---she ended up loosing her tail. It grew back but she was quite unsocialable for a long time. This was through no fault of her own. She is now as sweet as Nico...but nowhere near as contact seeking. She will not run and will not attempt to squirm away when handled--but at the same time if you dropped dead I don't think she would care much either.
Nico loves us though. He's a great animal...I really love male tegus.
In any case--there are always exceptions but even with those, if you go argentine--and put in the time--you will end up with a great animal