Letting my emotions get the best of me

Flood · #1 (**permalink**) 02-01-2003, 06:03 PM

I recently caught wind of a reptile wholesaler/shop and importer about four hours north of where I live. Supposedly the conditions in this place are not good, dead animlas left for days in with live ones, very sick wild caught reptiles spreading desease to everything, and not a single thing fed!!! The way this place is run, all they do is import reptiles and hope they sell off before they starve to death or get bacterial infections or worse from decaying animals around them. How does a place like this stay open you say? Well, a certain liability clause as I gather. The purpose of this business is to IMPORT and DISTRIBUTE and they are obligated to do nothing but import and distribute if they choose. That includes feeding and giving water. Anyways, there is not all that much to be done about this particular person and his shop(though he will ruin himself in time because no big accounts like other pet shops will buy from him)but, my frind and myself will be going up there in a couple of weeks and hopefully giving at least a few things a new home and with it a better chance of living. We each plan to go up with two or three hundred and we'll see what we can do. I hate to support a place like this but when you find yourself looking at these poor suffering animals it is hard to take our business elsewhere.
[addsig]

schatzie001 · #2 (**permalink**) 02-01-2003, 07:07 PM

Actually, I would not mind if you let your emotions get the best of you and see if the authorities can do something about this abomination. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif[/img]
[addsig]

herpkingdom · #3 (**permalink**) 02-01-2003, 07:28 PM

How about some details?

Where is this slop shop located?

Maybe more than just you and your friend can make the trip. I know if it is close to me I will join you.

Being a importer and distributor doesn't negate the laws on the books for animal cruelity. Try getting some agency involved that can have him shut down. Lord knows there are enough laws being passed to try to keep us from keeping herps. Let's try to use one that is on the books for the purpose is was actually designed for. This way we can point to it and say? Look this law is in place to protect animals from abuse and neglect, and this is how it is supposed to work. Banning all people from keeping herps as pets isn't the answer. Enforcing existing laws is."

If there is anyway to find out who he sells to, and then informing them of the conditions he keeps these animals in, it might presuade them to find their livestock elsewhere.

Just my 2 cents worth

_________________
Jim Dixon
Herp Kingdom
www.herpkingdom.com
Where Our Herps Live Like Kings

OverTech · #4 (**permalink**) 02-01-2003, 08:23 PM

"Animals housed in retail pet facilities are not afforded protection by the Animal Welfare Act", so unfortunately, the chances are that there are no laws on the books in that state for animal cruelty that cover reptiles.

Some states have no pet store laws, some have laws but define "pets" as being cats and dogs only, some have very vague laws that merely require "adequate care" or "humane conditions", and others are much more specific. See the link below for animal care laws by state, it may that nothing can be legally done by the authorities.

http://www.api4animals.org/doc.asp?ID=1071

Good luck...

Dave
[addsig]

jpaulson · #5 (**permalink**) 02-01-2003, 10:02 PM

Hey guys,

Just wanted to let you know that Flood lives up in Canada. So, Jim, I don't think you will be joining them on their venture. Remember, he is dealing with a whole different set of laws then we are here in the states. Anyone up on Canada Animal Welfare?
[addsig]

Reptscue · #6 (**permalink**) 02-01-2003, 10:03 PM

>>my frind and myself will be going up there in a couple of weeks and hopefully giving at least a few things a new home and with it a better chance of living. We each plan to go up with two or three hundred and we'll see what we can do. I hate to support a place like this but when you find yourself looking at these poor suffering animals it is hard to take our business elsewhere.

Unfortunalty, like you said, by you doing this it will only support them and keep the doors open for buisness. I know how it can be to want to take them home, but I would have to agree with everyone else who has replied, get the authorities involved if possible, but NOT purchase them.

It is so sad how people can live with themselves after doing such terrible things! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif[/img]

Good luck!!!!!

Kim

herm · #7 (**permalink**) 02-02-2003, 01:34 AM

He'll go out of business faster if you don't give him your money. There is nothing wrong with having those emotions, but giving this guy your money will only torture a few more animals.
[addsig]

#8 (**permalink**) 02-02-2003, 01:47 AM

I agree with most on this thread.. If you pay / buy any animals from this person...Then all that you are doing is enabling the further torture associated with the animals is all. That would be done by you supplying the demand for such animals to be kept like this person is doing when you purchase them. Take away that link in the chain that keeps this type of thing going for this place and you will actually be helping to support it's downfall. Feed into it by purchasing and you will be promoting it's existance.
[addsig]

herpkingdom · #9 (**permalink**) 02-02-2003, 05:33 AM

OK, so what do we do?

Like I said we should find out who his customers are and notify them of the conditions he keeps the animals in. Most distributors deliver their animals, if it comes to it follow him around to find his customers.

I cannot believe there are no laws against the way he keeps these herps. Even in Cananda you would figure there would be. Someone from Cananda should look into the laws about animal cruelity and neglect and how they apply to wholesale / retial pets.

What are the laws about bringing herps across the border into the US?

It seems the best way to stop someone like this is to hit them in the wallet. So contacting his customers and flat out boycotting him seems the way to go.

[addsig]

bensnacks · #10 (**permalink**) 02-02-2003, 11:36 AM

Another reason for my anti-import ideal, imo ,there's
no reason to import animals into a country, full stop.

It opens the door for this type of stuff to occur.

Ten points for getting emotional.!
Carry it further , but don't purchase , it perpetuates the cycle.

0.2c keep the change.
[addsig]

herpkingdom · #11 (**permalink**) 02-02-2003, 05:29 PM

They did a ban on importing birds in the eighties. All that did was increase the amount of birds being smuggled into the country and drive the cost of the animals to an extreme.
Banning imports on herps would result in the same thing. There are not enough breeders in this country to produce the amount of reptiles the markets seems to sell every year.

Now this is supposedly in Canada an I am not familiar with any of the laws a regulations of Canada.

It is just my opinion that banning the import of all herps is not a viable solution at thit time.
[addsig]

Flood · #12 (**permalink**) 02-03-2003, 08:25 PM

Well, we will be talking to the Humane Society once we get up there. The shop is in Missisauga, on and I'm in Windsor so not much can be done until we go up there. Also, tipping off his customers had crossed my mind, and WOULD work, but one he sells directly to the public as well as to shops, and two regardless of conditions, people are trying to make money and they are not going to spend 60% or more from another supplier. Anyways though, once we get up there we are going to push the Humane Society for a surprise inspection. You all know that supporting someone like this is wrong, but so is letting things die and I have a funny feeling that when we see things there our sorrows for these animals will affect our decisions. That being said, if we buy anything, it won't be for much money.
[addsig]

BWSmith · #13 (**permalink**) 02-03-2003, 09:04 PM

Don't get your hope up too far on the Humane Society. These are the same people who continually try to ban the KEEPING of herps by ANYONE. And as much as it pains me to say, but getting them involved, we may be giving them more ammunition for future attacks against herpetoculture.
[addsig]

#14 (**permalink**) 02-03-2003, 09:17 PM

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>You all know that supporting someone like this is wrong,</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

I think those here would agree with that statement no doubt. BUT...

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>if we buy anything, it won't be for much money. </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

Isn't the above statement one that is contradictory and resultive in being a person who supports someone like that actually ??

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>but so is letting things die </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

Purchasing a reptile such as the ones that you say exist there..opens space for more to be obtained and keep the cycle of the problem in the first place continuing. If you do not buy from the person or anyone else does either..then YES the animals will die from the lack of proper care..BUT the person also will not become enabled to purchase more of the animals to put them through this horrid cycling only to have more of them just die off. That's the difference...ie...

Say the guy has 10 ball pythons that are not being kept in proper husbandry and would die if not bought by someone who would rehab them back to health. With what you are saying in regards to buying them to save them. there are two routes that are possibilities basically...

1. Buy the 10 snakes from the guy. Rehab them back to health. GREAT! Ya just saved the lives of 10 snakes right ?? The person now goes out and obtains 10 more of these snakes and treats them the same way. Just keep repeating this process over and over and over and over etc That's what your gonna do right ? OR are you just going to buy the first batch of 10 snakes to save them and forget about the concurrent ones the person buys and let them die from his improper care regimes ?? Sooo?? Just how long and how many snakes could you continue doing this with that the guy has ???

2. NOT buy the 10 snakes from the guy. YES they most likely will die from the improper care that they recive from the guy. Sad , but sometimes we have to make sacrifices of life in order to ultimately save more lives. Not saying it is a great thing to have to be doing either. BUT The whole picture is what needs to be considered, NOT just a piece of it only. The snakes are not sold and the guy does not have the funds to obtain new ones. Hopefully he has no other venues for obtaining the funds either to replace the snakes he had in stock that died off. Apply this to ALL the stock he keeps and he will eventually have no funding for obtaining any further live stock. It places a stopping point in the cycle of what he is doing in regards to the snakes he stocks at some point. If there is NO demand [ purchasing/buying] of the snakes from the guy, then there is also no supply [the guy obtaining more snakes to improperly care for and be a link in the chain that is leading to their demise] to be met by him either.
While taking this route to try and help out the snakes under his care... Look for other venues such as the humane society pushing that you mentioned to put a stop to what the guy is doing as soon as possible. That would relate to less animals dieing as a result of his action/inactions more so than doing the above related scenario [ #2] only.

[addsig]

Advertisement