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Old 05-16-2005, 06:13 PM
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Alika Alika is offline
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rescued boa this week...

Hello,

I have a long story and I hope it's okay if I post it here. I'm continually researching and looking for tips and information to help make this girl's life better, and it seems like the best way to do that is to explain the story, including her past living conditions, current living conditions, and current treatments. Please bear with me, and thanks in advance for reading this.

On Friday I rescued a female boa (originally told she was a red-tail, but I now believe she is a Columbian), about 3.5-4' long, from a neglectful home. I took her from a coworker of mine. The snake (her name is Nzambi now) was dumped on her during a visit from an exboyfriend... he left, and she discovered that he had left the snake. The guy ended up skipping town, so my coworker was stuck with the snake. This was 8-10 weeks ago.

During those 8-10 weeks, this coworker tried to get rid of her by selling her. My husband and I considered taking her, but she was asking $200, which we believed was far too much for a snake that had been dumped on her. During this time, she was living on the floor in a bedroom with no heat. At some point, she stopped eating and was attacked by a rat during a feeding session.

My coworker knew that I was willing to take her, so she came down on the price... desperate to get rid of her. We told her that if she would let her go for $75, we would take her and see what we could do with her. At the time, I believed the biggest challenge was that she hadn't been eating, which I felt was due to her living situation... on the carpet with no heat. She agreed, and we arranged for her to bring the snake to work on Friday afternoon.

My husband and I spent the week researching boas and shopping for her. We ended up getting a 55 gal. aquarium with a locking top (we know that this won't last her for long... it's only temporary until she gets to feeling better and we can build her something bigger). We bought several thermometers, an undertank heater, and a kitty litter box to use for a watering/soaking dish and found and reshaped a box to use as a hide and double as a shelf. We also have an iguana, and happened to have an extra basking light, so we didn't need to buy one of those.

So, you see, we were ready for her on Friday when I picked her up. What we weren't prepared for was her condition.

She is extremely thin and painfully weak... I work with large constrictors at the zoo where I volunteer, so I do know what a healthy snake looks/feels like, and she was obviously sick. Her scales were dry and sloughed off too easily, and her tail had multiple bite wounds where the rat chewed her up. Aside from her poor body condition, her head was a mess... dried puss had built up in her mouth so that she could neither close it all the way nor open it. Her gums were so swollen that her head was mishapen and grotesque.

I took this picture before her vet appointment:



I felt horrible for her and immediately called my vet (again, I have an iguana, so I already have a great reptile vet). She was already full for the day, so we had to pay for an emergency visit for her to see us after hours.

Our snake was diagnosed with a severe respiratory infection, which likely caused the stomatitis (mouth rot) she was also experiencing. Because she was also severely dehydrated, she stayed at the vet's overnight to get fluids. We picked her up Saturday afternoon with instructions to clean out her mouth with antiseptic 1-2x a day, give injections of Baytril and Penicillian every 72 hours for 3 weeks, and keep her between 80-90F. If she doesn't drink on her own, we're supposed to bring her back for more fluids.

She already seemed to be doing better yesterday (Sunday). Here are some pictures I took of her when we had her out to clean out her mouth:







Her head is supposed to return to normal once the swelling goes down. She's expected to make a full recovery with some TLC.

The original habitat setup was this: newspaper as substrate and a thermometer on each end. Her hide was positioned above the undertank heater to keep it warm inside, and I had a basking area of about 93F set up on the opposite side, with her water dish in the middle. If she wanted to get out of the heat, she could climb on top of her hide where the temperature ranged from 75-80F (the temperature inside the hide being 85F).

I posted this on another board, and was advised to move things around so that the undertank heater was in the basking spot and the hide was the cool part of the cage. However, the temperature in her hide is now only 75F, which worries me because the vet told us to keep her between 80-90F. We've considered investing in a smaller undertank heater for that side to keep the hide a bit warmer, but not too warm.

Although I will say that she didn't like her hide when it was warm, but has been using it more now that it's cooler.

What do you guys/girls think?


Also, our vet didn't advise us about the rat bites. I gave her a bit of a bath this morning and considered putting some Betadine in with her, but I was afraid that she would drink it (she's been drinking a LOT this weekend). The bites are halfway healed, and I know that reptiles heal slowly and they'll take longer to heal... they're at least scabbed over. My vet believes that the bites were infected and caused the RI, which in turn caused the stomatitis. Should we be using an antibacterial cream on them or giving betadine soaks, or will the Baytril injections do enough?

Believe me, I am very opposed to feeding live prey, and she will not be attacked again. Unfortunately, she is afraid of rats, so we're starting her on mice. I'm a bit torn on this... in her weakened condition, it would probably help to get the bigger end of nutrition from a large rat than just a little serving from a small mouse, but perhaps the smaller prey will be easier for her to eat. At any rate, she ate a mouse last Thursday (don't ask me how, with the condition her mouth was in) and we will be giving her another one this Thursday after she gets her injections. And yes, we will be feeding pre-killed (frozen and thawed) prey. We plan on gradually introducing her back to rats, feeding her once a week at least until she regains her health. Next week we're going to try feeding a small rat, and gradually increasing the size until she's up to large rats again.

I didn't pay my coworker for the snake on Friday when I left with her, pleading that I would need the money for vet bills. She told me that she had already taken her to a vet, but I know that the vet who saw her is an *cough cough* idiot who claims to specialize in birds and exotics but doesn't know a hemipenes from a parietal eye. He told her that our snake simply had a bit of nasal congestion from allergens and irritants she was getting into on the floor and told her to offer her a dish of aspen shavings just to get her off the carpet. That was it... no antibiotic, no nothing. (my vet was shocked to hear this). Anyway, I was convinced she either had mouth rot or a respiratory infection (surprise surprise, both) and insisted on taking her to a vet. We ended up paying $175 in vet bills, and I called my coworker back and explained to her that we wouldn't be giving her any money for the snake at all because we didn't feel it was right that we should have to pay for her AND her vet bills.

So... questions...

First off, if you have any suggestions or thoughts on any of what I just said, please let me know. We're really struggling to do right by her. I'm especially interested in what everyone thinks about her current setup.

Would it be okay to take her outside? I know that the sun can do wonders to speed recovery, but I also know that we should keep her as quiet and still as possible, especially while she's still adjusting to her new home.

Also, do snakes need a 'basking spot' or just a temperature gradient? I've kind of gotten the impression that you don't even need to use a basking lamp as long as they are warm and humid, is that correct?

And do you think we should try treating the rat bites, or just leave them alone and let them heal on their own with everything else? Again, the vet didn't say anything about how we should deal with them... we were all so worried about the RI and mouthrot and dehydration. They aren't fresh bites... they're 6-8 weeks old, and most have already started to heal.

I think that's it for now. Thanks for reading this monster post!
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Old 05-16-2005, 06:42 PM
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Wow. That was a long one. It sure sounds like she's in a good home... I wish you the best of luck!

First, I would suggest sticking with F/T rats until she braves it. I would plop a rat in front of her favorite hide and leave it there over night. I'd be willing to bet it will be gone in the morning. If she doesn't eat, toss it in the morning and offer again on the next scheduled fee. I wouldn't be suprised if she didn't take it for a bit longer though, she may still want some recovery from the RI & mouth rot. I'd also keep her on paper towel or newspaper substrate. Keep a close eye out for snake mites.

Here are some suggestions on caging, heat regulation and various care articles. Good luck!

Caresheet

Probiotics

Home Medications and Cures for Common Illnesses and Injuries of Reptiles

Enclosure ideas:
www.boaphileplastics.com

Rodent supplier:
www.rodentpro.com

My favorite thermostat for the warm side of the cage:
Proportional Thermostat w/ night drop

Another warm side option:
Extreamly reliable w/ digital display

My cool side thermos for larger cages:
Cheap but effective

Cheap dual probe digital Thermometer/Hydrometer:
Bigappleherp Rocks!
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Old 05-16-2005, 07:04 PM
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el_nico el_nico is offline
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nice find, what kinda a-hole would skip town and leave a snake with his x girlfriend thats screwed up. its mouth looks sorta deformed though ? i dunno mabey its jsut me
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Old 05-16-2005, 07:12 PM
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Alika Alika is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el_nico
its mouth looks sorta deformed though ? i dunno mabey its jsut me
That's the point... she has mouth rot (in addition to a slew of other medical problems) which has caused her gums to swell which makes her face appear deformed. The swelling should subside in the next few weeks, and her face is expected to return to nornal.

She wasn't exactly a nice find... she's a very sick snake in very poor condition, and I've already put twice the amount of money into her that I would have had I bought a healthy baby. But once I saw her, I couldn't turn my back on her. She would have died under the conditions she was in.

I don't blame you for not reading my post... it was very long... but if you have questions on my pictures, please read the post that they're in before asking me to retype the answers.
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Old 05-16-2005, 07:25 PM
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wow. at least your there to make her well again. why would anyone do that to such beautiful animals? especiallt that one, it looks like it has a nice stripe on its tail.
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Old 05-16-2005, 07:25 PM
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chris you should have all that stuff in your sig..

but in regards to the above post.. what a reader! I applaud you for getting that snake out of those horrid conditions.

but to answer you question....the snake is gonna need a heat gradient rather than a "basking spot"...

as far as going outside..why not.. =) every little snake can use some vitamin D

for the bites use asprin free neosporin or bacitracin...and a soak in betadine is ok.
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Old 05-16-2005, 07:38 PM
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Alika Alika is offline
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Thank you all for replying to me.

I've managed to get the temperature in her hide up to 78F by putting an incandescent bulb over it, which makes the temperature on top (a shelf she sometimes sits on) 95F.

The temperature on the warm end is about 90F.

So the gradient, if she stays on the ground, is 78-90F.

It's not warm and sunny out today. On the next warm and sunny day, I will take her out.

I thought you might like to hear where I got her name: Nzambi. It's an African name (yes, I know she's a S.American snake). Nzambi was the goddess of creation to a tribe of Africans in the Congo. Legend has it that she used to walk to world of men disguised as a wretched beggar woman, pleading for help. She bestowed great gifts of prosperity upon those who helped her, and taught lessons of compassion through hardships to those who did not. It seemed to be a fitting name for our girl, who is certainly wretched on the outside, but beautiful on the inside, and who was begging for help.

I'll keep you posted on her progress.
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Old 05-16-2005, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alika
So... questions...

1.) First off, if you have any suggestions or thoughts on any of what I just said, please let me know. We're really struggling to do right by her. I'm especially interested in what everyone thinks about her current setup.

2).Would it be okay to take her outside? I know that the sun can do wonders to speed recovery, but I also know that we should keep her as quiet and still as possible, especially while she's still adjusting to her new home.

3.)Also, do snakes need a 'basking spot' or just a temperature gradient? I've kind of gotten the impression that you don't even need to use a basking lamp as long as they are warm and humid, is that correct?

4.)And do you think we should try treating the rat bites, or just leave them alone and let them heal on their own with everything else? Again, the vet didn't say anything about how we should deal with them... we were all so worried about the RI and mouthrot and dehydration. They aren't fresh bites... they're 6-8 weeks old, and most have already started to heal.
1.) I personally think you should look carefully at boaphile plastics cages. They are reasonably priced (most of them anyways), hold heat & humidity very well, and they're easy to keep clean. CLEAN will be the important part... especially for this critter.

2.) I wouldn't just yet... at least not to roam around on her own. If she's on you, then sure, but I'd keep her in a fairly steril environment till she gets healed up.

3.) I don't have "basking spots" on any of my enclosures. I do have one cage that has a radient heat panel on the top of the enclosure, but that was just to help raise the ambient temp for this LARGE cage. Other then that, 88deg warm side and 78deg cool side is perfect. I use either flexwatt or human heat pads to accomplish this. I use two thermostats per enclosure. One for the warm side and one for the cool, but not everyone needs to do this.

4.) You could certainly put some neosporin on the rat bites on a daily basis. Just make sure you're using some sort of non-loose substrate like newspaper or paper towels. Neosporin will decrease healing time and aid in scar recovery.

-BTW, she is probably drinking a lot because baytril causes dehydration. Make sure she continues to drink lots of fluids while on this medication.

Last edited by pathfinder36 : 05-16-2005 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 05-16-2005, 07:51 PM
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Alika Alika is offline
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I'm definitely looking into the boaphile cages and would like to get one big enough to accomidate her adult size.

I don't like using Neosporin on reptiles... I've heard it can contain stuff that's bad for them, like Hydrocortizone. Instead, I use a hospital grade triple antibiotic (hubby works at hospital and brings this sort of thing home). I also have some Silvadine cream leftover from when I had chemical burns... would that be better for the bites?

Yes, our vet did say that the antibiotics she's on will cause kidney failure if she doesn't drink enough water, which is why we're supposed to bring her back if she doesn't drink much. She drinks tons at a time, though... I don't think we're going to have a problem with that.

Thanks again.
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Old 05-16-2005, 07:56 PM
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The original formula Neosporin is just fine, but you are correct on some of the others out there. Sounds like you know what you're doing, so just keep us posted on her progress.

=)
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Old 05-16-2005, 08:10 PM
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I'm so glad that there are people out there willing to take on these tough cases. Welcome to the site! We certainly need people like you around here.

Everyone's pretty much answered the majority of your concerns, so I'll stick with the viv. If you have any interest in building your own, here's two links for ya:
http://redtailboa.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11196
http://redtailboa.net/forums/showthr...2&page=1&pp=10

Best of luck with her, and please keep up posted! Once again, welcome to RTB!