*Florida*copy Senator Poppell's new bill 1504 being worked on for Florida

[Akureyri]

Be advised! Below is a copy Senator Poppell's new bill 1504 being worked on

Please take the time and read through this bill this is what we are up against for Reptiles of Concern.

Florida House of Representatives - Documents.

doc&DocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=1505&Session=2007

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission

FWC has approved new rules concerning reptiles and other captive wildlife which will go into effect as early as Jan 1 2008 Go to the link below to read the full Press Release

http://myfwc.com/whatsnew/07/statewi...iveruless.HTML

these were news articles from the Jacksonville herp society website. just thought i would help spread the word. these penalties are going to be ridiculous

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[New_BP_Guy]

ummm neither links work...

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[Akureyri]

ok i will fix it tonite when i have more time

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[firekick3]

to get the link to work, simply remove the extra "s" at the end of the link. Or just use my link below...

FWC sharpening captive wildlife regulations

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[smilin-buddha]

It is actually House bill 1505

HB 1505 - Wildlife

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[John_White]

Actually, I think the proposed bill sounds like a good one.

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[RevMojo]

Sounds reasonable to me, too.

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[smilin-buddha]

It might be if they labeled or listed the species I just read through it and it looked like none were listed. And also hands alot of power to the FWC to add animals as they like with no senate review.

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[John_White]

"These rules create the list of reptiles of concern -- the Indian or Burmese python, reticulated python, African rock python, Amethystine or scrub python, green anaconda and the Nile monitor lizard."

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[smilin-buddha]

I read it very quickly. It also lets Fwc add animals as it see fits. I don't own any of the species mentioned. But you never know what they are going to add. Like Georgia and Corn snakes.

	Corn Snake The Corn Snake or Red Rat Snake (Elaphe guttata) is a species of Rat Snake.

[John_White]

The FWC's objective is to protect native wildlife. Controlling or limiting ownership of some non-native animals that pose a potential threat to indigenous wildlife is in accordance with their objective and a good idea.

Corn snakes are native to GA, so I would assume that their restrictions are in-place to protect the snakes from collectors. This is quite a bit different than protecting native animals from non-native, invasive animals.

	Corn Snake The Corn Snake or Red Rat Snake (Elaphe guttata) is a species of Rat Snake.

[Akureyri]

thanks for helping me with the link problem guys

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[smilin-buddha]

Originally Posted by John_White

The FWC's objective is to protect native wildlife. Controlling or limiting ownership of some non-native animals that pose a potential threat to indigenous wildlife is in accordance with their objective and a good idea.



While I respect your opinion. I am sure we will never see eye to eye.

That might have been their original goal. But they are far from it now. They are more a permitting board. I am not saying that their are not good officers out there. But some of their rules are outdated and not for the best interest of the wildlife as a whole. Until recently a developer was allowed to pay money to the state and builders could bury a gopher tortoise alive and let it starve. Because they paid a fee to the state. Also living in those Gopher Burrows were Indigos. One of the state reptiles they should be trying to protect.


Corn snakes are native to GA, so I would assume that their restrictions are in-place to protect the snakes from collectors. This is quite a bit different than protecting native animals from non-native, invasive animals.

Not really it is all the controlling of personnel freedom. I can't own a Creamsicle corn. Or some other morph of corn snake. That is the state controlling my choices and freedom to own something that is legal in most areas. I just want the species to be labeled and have the Fwc have to go through the state to add any additional animals to the list.


It is really easy to give up your freedom, but a heck of alot harder to get those freedoms back. I appreciate your time and point of view.

	Corn Snake The Corn Snake or Red Rat Snake (Elaphe guttata) is a species of Rat Snake.

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	Morph A morph is a color or pattern variation that is proven to be genetic. Common morphs include albino, anerythristic, gentically striped, Hypomelanistic, and many others. Morphs also include combinations of simple traits such as "Sunglow" which is Albino and Hypomelanistic. These traits may be recessive traits, co-dominant traits, dominant traits, or created through selective breeding (ie Pastel).

[John_White]

But some of their rules are outdated and not for the best interest of the wildlife as a whole. Until recently a developer was allowed to pay money to the state and builders could bury a gopher tortoise alive and let it starve. Because they paid a fee to the state. Also living in those Gopher Burrows were Indigos. One of the state reptiles they should be trying to protect.

That doesn't make sense. Do you have any proof or can you cite any creditable publication supporting these allegations?

Not really it is all the controlling of personnel freedom. I can't own a Creamsicle corn. Or some other morph of corn snake. That is the state controlling my choices and freedom to own something that is legal in most areas.

With the objective being to protect native wildlife. Not to simply side with the law, but how could anyone tell a cornsnake that is 1/32 creamsicle corn from a normal corn. We have this problem in my area where eastern kings are not allowed to be sold. Vendors simply state that the snakes are 1/100 (or pick a fraction) Florida king and therefor the eastern king law doesn't apply.

While I agree that personal freedom needs to be protected, it should not over shadow the big picture (managing & protecting native wildlife).

	Corn Snake The Corn Snake or Red Rat Snake (Elaphe guttata) is a species of Rat Snake.

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	Morph A morph is a color or pattern variation that is proven to be genetic. Common morphs include albino, anerythristic, gentically striped, Hypomelanistic, and many others. Morphs also include combinations of simple traits such as "Sunglow" which is Albino and Hypomelanistic. These traits may be recessive traits, co-dominant traits, dominant traits, or created through selective breeding (ie Pastel).

[smilin-buddha]

[QUOTE=John_White;383749]That doesn't make sense. Do you have any proof or can you cite any creditable publication supporting these allegations?

It is not allegations these are facts. I would never say something like that without proof. Please feel free to check out these links.

Member/Volunteer Speaks Out In the Tortoise Issues -Gopher Tortoise, Florida Conservation and Research- Ashton Biodiversity Institute- Gopher Tortoise Florida

https://community.hsus.org/campaign/FL_2007_tortoises

The Writing On The Wal » Blog Archive » Wal-Mart Buried Tortoises Alive

Florida's Gopher Tortoises Still Lack Protection | The Humane Society of the United States

News for Florida animal advocates » Blog Archive » Help save gopher tortoises from bulldozers!

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs...0061204/LOCAL/
61204009/-1/news

Stop killing gopher tortoises - Orlando Sentinel : Opinion Stop killing gopher tortoises - Orlando Sentinel : Opinion


That is just a few. They recently allowed a scientist form fau to move Gopher tortoises. That is one of the few.
HE even said on the news that the Tortoises would be entombed. Lots of times Indigos take over the burrows after the tortoises move on. There is no real way to know what gets buried.


Here is the permit to do it from the state website.
http://myfwc.com/permits/Tortoise/pd...ermitsText.pdf


TCPalm: Local News

[New_BP_Guy]

well from that list of snakes and lizards they are very big species and I think the florida government is afraid when they get full grown the owners will release them into the wild since they might not have the space to keep them and there for disturbing the natural ecosystem, such as what is happening with the cane toads and many other animals that were intended as pets, that is just my whole thought of were they are coming from, not that they are "controlling" your freedom but preventing any risks by irresponsible owners...

P.S. I didnt actually read the proposed bill, I am lazy :P I have just heard talk of something similar in other places...

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[smilin-buddha]

Actually cane toads were imported to control pests in the cane fields.


Originally released in sugar cane fields to help control rats and mice, it now is commonly found in South Florida yards. It breeds year round in standing water, streams, canals and ditches. The call is a low-pitched trill which sounds like an idling diesel engine.

Known scientifically as Bufo marinus, the Cane Toad, Giant Toad, or Marine Toad is native to an area extending from Mexico and Central America to the Amazon Basin.

Bufo marinus - Giant Toad, Cane Toad, Marine Toad

[New_BP_Guy]

Originally Posted by smilin-buddha

Actually cane toads were imported to control pests in the cane fields.
Originally released in sugar cane fields to help control rats and mice, it now is commonly found in South Florida yards. It breeds year round in standing water, streams, canals and ditches. The call is a low-pitched trill which sounds like an idling diesel engine.
Known scientifically as Bufo marinus, the Cane Toad, Giant Toad, or Marine Toad is native to an area extending from Mexico and Central America to the Amazon Basin.
Bufo marinus - Giant Toad, Cane Toad, Marine Toad

oh I knew that about the cane toads I meant that animals that were bought as pets released into the wild are causing the similar problems as the toads for example there is a small man made lake near me, I dont know how but that has piranha in it, if you go fishing in the summer you normally catch one...

[smilin-buddha]

I would not want to catch one of those. But we used to catch the Oscars which were released to contol the Tilapia.

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[John_E_Dove]

I can easily understand why Fla would want such laws for a state where almost any animal released into the wild, or accidently escapes, can easily survive. I wonder about the expense and politics of the micro chipping but other than that it seems a good idea.

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