I.B.D Strikes Again---May you rest in Peace Keisho - Page 2

stealthk7gsxr · #21 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 04:33 AM

sorry for your losses

amercnwmn · #22 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiploder

Dr. Jacobson claims that: "only one case has been seen in a colubrid and that needs to be revisited since that was based on H&E staining." This was based on correspondence from this past fall.

To the OP - was IBD confirmed in the kingsnake? If so - how?

It may be valuable to forward this information to Dr. Jacobson.

As for your other snakes who were confirmed as having the disease - where were the inclusion bodies found?

Quote:

Inclusion Body Disease (IBD) has been identified in boid snakes including multiple subspecies of the boa constrictor (Boa constrictor), green anaconda (Eunectes murinus), Haitian boa (Epicrates striatus), Burmese python (Python molurus bivittatus), Indian python (P. m. molurus), reticulated python (P. reticulatus), ball python (P. regius), carpet python (Morelia spilota variegata) and diamond pythons (M. s. spilota). In addition, a disease resembling IBD was diagnosed in an eastern king snake (Lampropeltis getulus) that was housed with boa constrictors and in palm vipers (Bothriechis marchi). Tissues to be used in the proposed study are already in the PI's tissue repository.

I think it's premature to say it's absolutely isolated to boids and pythons at this point.
This quote was taken from Dr. Jacobson's University of Florida site
Research UF|College of Veterinary Medicine

There's some pretty nasty viral infections running amok through collections right now: I know of confirmed Paramyxovirus, and another virus that was not specifically named that was similar to paramyxo, but not AS potent.

In any case, losing a snake to a viral outbreak SUCKS.
How many boas/pythons do you currently have?

skiploder · #23 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoodooChile

I think it's premature to say it's absolutely isolated to boids and pythons at this point.
This quote was taken from Dr. Jacobson's University of Florida site
Research UF|College of Veterinary Medicine
There's some pretty nasty viral infections running amok through collections right now: I know of confirmed Paramyxovirus, and another virus that was not specifically named that was similar to paramyxo, but not AS potent.
In any case, losing a snake to a viral outbreak SUCKS.
How many boas/pythons do you currently have?

I'm not saying it's isolated to boids - the point is that if the OP had documented that the kingsnake died of IBD, it would be beneficial to reptile medicine if that info was passed on to researchers.

Inclusion bodies can be found in association with other viruses, ie: adenovirus. So the presence of inclusion bodies does not necessarily mean IBD. Verified IBD inclusion bodies can be found not only in the brain, but the gall bladder, the liver, the esophageal tonsils, etc.

To the OP: My condolences. Losing one animal is bad enough - but watching them pass one by one must be unbearable. I hope things take a turn for the better for you and your animals.

jbd123 · #24 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 02:57 PM

I am so incredibly sorry for your losses. I hope you lose no more animals to this disease.

Akureyri · #25 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 03:15 PM

I dont recall if any were found in the brain as it has been some time since the last IBD related death. I do remember the liver, lungs, and intestine for sure.

Akureyri · #26 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoodooChile

I think it's premature to say it's absolutely isolated to boids and pythons at this point.
This quote was taken from Dr. Jacobson's University of Florida site
Research UF|College of Veterinary Medicine
There's some pretty nasty viral infections running amok through collections right now: I know of confirmed Paramyxovirus, and another virus that was not specifically named that was similar to paramyxo, but not AS potent.
In any case, losing a snake to a viral outbreak SUCKS.
How many boas/pythons do you currently have?

I will be at 3 balls, 1rtb, 1 coastal carpet python, and 2 dumerils. Each are house in seperate cages from eachother but the cages are in one room. I havent seperated the cages from eachother, meaning put them in different rooms, because I dont know who is affected and who isnt. So moving the cages to different areas of the house could move the virus with it and contaminate other areas of the house. Also as i have had to move back into my parents house, my seperation options are limited.

Akureyri · #27 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 03:26 PM

I think the hardest part for me is knowing that I work for a vet who knows about reptiles and that there is nothing I can really do for them. What really sucks is the "reptile specialist" in the city is an idiot. He only cares about writing books anymore. I took one of my boas to him a few tears back and he didnt catch the infection that she died from. So I refuse to take anymore to him as he just doesnt care anymore. Im tempted to start traveling to different Specialists in the state but funds are limited so im kinds stuck.The only other option that I have that I can think of is get ahold of University of Florida and see if they would like to do studies. It may be beneficial to the herp community and if my losses can help someone else out then in the long run it may be ok. What do yall think about that?

Sakara · #28 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 03:30 PM

since you can't really separate them into diff. rooms, what I suggest is using hand sanitizer at a MINIMUM between snakes... better would be to scrub your hands after each one... Use strict separate bins for each one for cleaning time..., Get some of those cholrox cleaning and disinfecting wipes and SCRUB everyone's bins with soap and HOT to the point of burning yourself hot water, and then use the Chlorox wipes on the bins or cages, whatever you have... From what I have been told, IBD is very unstable in the atmosphere and it is actually not that easy to catch through the air... It's when you touch a snake, say during cleaning, and you get any type of secretion on you, that you pass it to the next animal... Or with animals that are housed together... I do suggest, if you can... Separate the boas into one room and pythons into another... If you can... Boas can have IBD and not show symptoms for a long time, or ever... A boa can be an asymptomatic carrier and never succumb to the disease, but pass it to others

there is no cure, but the least you can do is do all the preventative measures to hopefully insure that it doesn't pass to anyone else

Sakara · #29 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akureyri

I think the hardest part for me is knowing that I work for a vet who knows about reptiles and that there is nothing I can really do for them. What really sucks is the "reptile specialist" in the city is an idiot. He only cares about writing books anymore. I took one of my boas to him a few tears back and he didnt catch the infection that she died from. So I refuse to take anymore to him as he just doesnt care anymore. Im tempted to start traveling to different Specialists in the state but funds are limited so im kinds stuck.The only other option that I have that I can think of is get ahold of University of Florida and see if they would like to do studies. It may be beneficial to the herp community and if my losses can help someone else out then in the long run it may be ok. What do yall think about that?

contact Dr. Jacobson....

JacobsonE@vetmed.ufl.edu

He is pretty quick about emailing back

Akureyri · #30 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 04:35 PM

Thanks Sakara. I called about an hour ago and left a message. I use strict policies when handling my animals. I use medical gloved when handling them and i change the gloves between each animal/bin. After it is all said and done, i follow up with soap& water and hand sanitizer. I try to limit the contamination as much as possible. Thanks for the e-mail. I will send him an email in a minute.

As for yhe kingsnake being tested, I froze him when I found him as I didnt have many other option. like i said before, im in my parents house and my father has a problem with snakes. he especially has a problem with snakes around his food. so i have a limited time frame as to what i can do with the deceased animals.

Akureyri · #31 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 04:52 PM

Thanks to everyone for their imput and condolences. I will come back and post once the procedure is complete.

Akureyri · #32 (**permalink**) 03-10-2010, 07:22 PM

it has been done. Keisho now sleeps peacefully

Akureyri · #33 (**permalink**) 03-11-2010, 12:05 AM

Good news.. Dr. Jacobson got back to me and seemed interested in what I can offer with keisho's death. He stated that one of his grad students has developed a stain that isolates the inclusion bodies in a specimen sample. I am expecting a list of requested samples before i proceed with the necropsy.

amercnwmn · #34 (**permalink**) 03-11-2010, 11:59 PM

Sorry Akureyri,
I lost some great animals to an outbreak as well. It SUCKS. There are no other words.
If anyone can help you, it will be Dr. Jacobson and his colleagues.
I hope they will come up with some answers for you.

I've had friends lose hundreds of thousands of dollars to ONE disease. You do what you can, and sometimes things happen.
There are apparently a few nasty bugs out there right now, so I hope everyone will remember to be strict with quarantining new arrivals.

Akureyri · #35 (**permalink**) 03-12-2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoodooChile

Sorry Akureyri,
I lost some great animals to an outbreak as well. It SUCKS. There are no other words.
If anyone can help you, it will be Dr. Jacobson and his colleagues.
I hope they will come up with some answers for you.

I've had friends lose hundreds of thousands of dollars to ONE disease. You do what you can, and sometimes things happen.
There are apparently a few nasty bugs out there right now, so I hope everyone will remember to be strict with quarantining new arrivals.

Thanks. Dr. Jacobson and one of his grad students are corresponding with my right now. I am going to send them some tissue and blood samples in the coming days. Hopefully it will help with their research. They are working on a test for the disease and the blood samples could help them improve the test. Its all kinda exciting and seems like good news resulting from what im considering a personal tragedy.

Stargazer · #36 (**permalink**) 03-12-2010, 08:19 PM

There is another member here who just posted about a lot of mysterious reptile losses (LS84?). I hope the two of you follow each other's threads. It might be related.

Akureyri · #37 (**permalink**) 03-12-2010, 09:51 PM

LS84 is the name?

Stargazer · #38 (**permalink**) 03-12-2010, 09:52 PM

Here is the thread. Strange unexplained deaths

Akureyri · #39 (**permalink**) 03-12-2010, 10:00 PM

Thanks Star. Man thats just weird that animals are passing out of the blue.

TammyJamaica · #40 (**permalink**) 03-12-2010, 10:09 PM

I feel it for you in losing these precious animals. It's good that you may be able to help with material for any research to try to find a cure/cause/treatment for it.

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