Red Deer Reptiles = Worst Store Ever.

Aaron_NSBM · #1 (**permalink**) 11-12-2007, 11:57 PM

did we forget to post?

LukaTisus · #2 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northstarboasandmore

did we forget to post?

XD That would be... a problem with the site I think. Wouldn't let me freakin' post. T__T Ugh. the mods can delete the three repeats of this thread, 'cuz it kept telling me there was an error, so I figured it didn't actualyl get through to being posted.

LukaTisus · #3 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 06:10 AM

In any case, this is the post I intended to start the thread off with: For anyone in the Red Deer area, they probably know of this store. Anyone in Central Alberta, if they don't know about it.. if you're ever in Red Deer, don't go there. It's heartbreaking.

I went in, out of curiousity and not realizing this was the exact, horrific excuse for a reptile store that I'd read about not too long ago, online. I walked in, it seemed a half decent place. There was a pool set up in the floor just inside the door with a small diamond terrapin swimming around, water was clean, didn't seem too bad. I turn, head a little deeper and stop. There's a basilisk sitting in a bird cage.. no heat lamp, nothing.. in a bird cage! Quizzically, I kind of gave the owner a look, my friend was with me so I didn't want to start saying anything or making a fuss too much in front of her... well, once I got into the spot where he kept the animals.. my will power was wearing VERY thin.

Uncleaned deer antlers used to decorate in, and around the tanks, two emerald tree boas in one huge enclosure, not a speck of moisture anywhere in the tank, NO water dish.. feces and shed skin littering the bare bottom of the cage.

There were several tanks of ball pythons, one of which was a small Exoterrium, with the opening doors.. a small. Tiny little thing, loaded up with 10 or more baby ball pythons without a water dish. There were maybe.. 5 water dishes in the 10 or more tanks I saw with snakes in them. The tanks were horrifically overcrowded, nothing but a bit of bunched up paper towel littering the bottom, amidst the feces and urates all over the place. I'm talking about a few weeks worth, not just that week..

He had a whole showcase-style cabinet filled with tiny little containers of cornsnakes, none of which I noticed had any heat, or heat-tape.. the snakes, if they were lucky enough to be in a tank with heat, only had an extra-small heating pad, if that. They were all in bad shape.. skinny, emaciated, or just downright unhappy looking.

I was getting aggravated, so I stepped into the lizard section.. dear Lord, it was bad. There was a dead water dragon in a tank full of babies.. the tank had several small water dragons, and a couple of iguanas shoved into it..
Another, on the floor, had what I think was a blue-tongued skink, several bearded dragons, and a cluster of sulcata tortoises.. the only little water bowl in the tank had several lizards stuffing themselves in there because they were either dehydrated, or mite-infested. Possibly both. There was a 5' long iguana in a tiny 33 gallon tank, which took a crack at the glass with his tail when I walked by..

In the back, he had an Argentine black and white Tegu.. emaciated and looked like it was ready to keel over and die, while a uromastyx was in the same tank, wrapped up in the tiny tupperware dish in there for water. The cages were filthy, there were so many other things wrong, but it'd take me all day to go through them.

I'd heard about the owner, one who tries to claim he has the most experience in Canada. It's bull. If he had any form of experience, he would know that an Emerald Tree boa, is NOT an Amazon tree boa.. which is what he had them listed as.

Another friend of mine went into the store yesterday, it happened we took the same bus home and got on the subject talking about it. He said that he went in, interested in buying something--which I promptly told him not to. He agreed, saying he'd changed his mind when he saw what the store owner was doing..

...the man had taken out a giant centipede, toying around with it and chasing it around in it's cage, going on about how venomous they were, could make you sick, etc etc. Well, he PO'd it off enough that it bit him. Right on the hand, it tagged him, and after a moment of fussing, the guy proceeded in taking it out and acted all "Steve Irwin"-esque, as my friend put it.. trying to put a show on for the small group of customers he'd gathered. So he puts the centipede on the floor and let it tear around, trying to block off it's escape routes with an icecream lid before calling over a young boy, trying to get him to lean down and touch it.

Then came the fat-tailed scorpions. The guy took them out, laid them on the table and proceeded to poke and prod at them to get them to retaliate and try to sting the offending object. Whatever the heck he was trying to do, my friend left before he could do it. Now if I'm not mistaken, fat-tails have the potential to kill a man, do they not? What on EARTH did that man think he was doing, putting a display like that on, in front of little kids!?

I didn't say a word to the man while I was in his store, myself. His reaction to suggestions about his animals results in his 'banning' you from his store. He threatens to call the cops, acts like he's oh-high-and-mighty, or ye-allknowing.. when his animals are sick. Parasite infested, and obviously dying. His excuse for the snakes having no water? "They're in Season" ...what the heck is a 'season'? And what time of year to ETB's NOT have any water available? If I'm not mistaken, it rains.. rains.. and then rains some more where they're from.

So he justifies his treatment of animals like this? It's horrific. One of the girls at the Red Deer Petland (a thousand times better store) told me that two homeless bums came into their store, with a bearded dragon they found.. the girls asked where they'd got it from, and they said it was stuffed in a pizza box and tossed into the dumpster behind the Reptile store.. upon asking the owner about it, he said "I didn't want the *** thing so I threw it out." Or something along those lines... Apparently anything he can't sell, or doesn't want in the store anymore, he throws out like it's garbage. That's all those animals in that place are to him! Disposeable income...

There's a thread on Fauna Classifieds regarding this store. The owner, Dan, is banned from any and all Herp-related expos in the area, any of his employees, or those suspected of working for him aren't allowed, and many people who're known customers to his store have been turned down on sales and kicked out of shows.

Instead of confronting the obviously ignorant, heinous and otherwise poor excuse for a member of the Herp community, I emailed the SPCA, and I plan on calling them if I don't get a reply soon. There are quite a few breeders in the Central Alberta area trying to get that store shut down, and it's on the verge of. People just need to raise their voices a bit more.. and after seeing what I did in that place, I intend to.

Aaron_NSBM · #4 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 06:23 AM

holy cow..how can people treat animals like that? he is what you call plain out trash!

LukaTisus · #5 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northstarboasandmore

holy cow..how can people treat animals like that? he is what you call plain out trash!

I'll say...

I also found this regarding that store.

Just reading all those comments and experiences those people had with that place makes me want to go hunt the guy down, shove him into an undersized room, with no way out, no water.. moldy food.. and when he starts complaining about being thirsty, I'll talk through an intercom: "Sorry, but you're in season, you don't need water."

anthrpicdecadnce · #6 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukaTisus

I'll say...
I also found this regarding that store.
Just reading all those comments and experiences those people had with that place makes me want to go hunt the guy down, shove him into an undersized room, with no way out, no water.. moldy food.. and when he starts complaining about being thirsty, I'll talk through an intercom: "Sorry, but you're in season, you don't need water."

owned.

PythonGuy21 · #7 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 08:04 AM

well folks i think its time for a angry miltia/mofia to go get this guy, lol start the sign up list and well all meet there and shove this guy in a dumpster and lock it and see if he "lives" and if he doesnt oh well, he was in season.

LukaTisus · #8 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PythonGuy21

well folks i think its time for a angry miltia/mofia to go get this guy, lol start the sign up list and well all meet there and shove this guy in a dumpster and lock it and see if he "lives" and if he doesnt oh well, he was in season.

LOL No, we couldn't sell him 'cuz nobody wanted a sick mofo like that, so it's time for him to be discarded and tossed out like the horrors you find on refridgerator-cleaning-day.

ja-rod4545 · #9 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 08:15 AM

any way we all can contact him?

LukaTisus · #10 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ja-rod4545

any way we all can contact him?

From what I"ve heard, trying to contact him is useless. He spouts off total BS about having a 2700 collection of snakes, the most experience, blah-blah-blah.. and how he's got an import/export license and whatnot..

It's like, he's got this wall in his brain... where he only takes his own advice, and anything anyone else tries to tell him gets richocheted off and provides more brain damage than he already needs. I think he's a druggie, to be honest.. the way he acts, and the way he was acting when he was messing with the scorpions, leads me to believe he was high on some sort of substance.

The best thing to do, is contact the SPCA, Alberta Fish and Game.. anyone that deals with animals, animal rights, and possibly even a Health Unit of some kind, considering those tanks have got to be diseased in some way.. sad as it sounds, he relocated his store right next to a tattoo parlor. Not good for their business.

zebo and nola · #11 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 08:37 AM

sounds to me like talk wont get you any where with this guy only legal action is there some kind of animal health inspector that can get involved or as above stated call aspca there is nno excuse for treatment like this im glad iv never been there because i would say something then he would get smart then beat down and it would be worth the night in jail i love herps and am willing to sign any patiton to save those that can be saved and end the suffering of those that cant

Ekke · #12 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 03:44 PM

Well you can always introduce him to some real hot snakes.......

leoares27 · #13 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 05:04 PM

I hope you take this guy down...HARD!!!
Good luck!!

Bubba117 · #14 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 05:29 PM

SAD SAD SAD and quite disgusting........needless to say we have one here in our area who treats the pets in the store UMMMMM dirty and nasty cages and so forth....none seems to care.....I dont know how these people pass health inspections unless they are contacted before they come.....UGHHHHHHHHHHHH just frustrating!

-KB- · #15 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 06:51 PM

That makes me sick. Its animal cruelty, plain and simple. Housing, unfortunately is a matter of personal choice, but when its animals housed together that have the potential to hurt one another, I'm sure in some way shape or form, you could tie it to animal cruelty. Also, forcing animals to live amongst their feces, without proper living conditions needed to thrive (heat, humidity), not offering food and water, THAT is MOST DEFINITELY animal cruelty. Think about it....when the little old crazy lady down the road has 70 cats in her house, feces everywhere, and the cats are almost starving, the police take them away, fine the owner, and sometimes jail time is served. Why should he be exempt from the law? I'd pull together the biggest case possible, and present it to someone.

Xeikeness · #16 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 06:58 PM

What makes me angry about reading posts like this... is that this is a store, open to the public, and children, and parents who don't know what a "sick" snake looks like.

This is a role model, this is a person in a place of learning, this is, for all accounts, a TEACHER.

And here he is, trying to kill kids by teaching them how to get themselves stung by scorpions and other harmful insects, treating them as though it's nothing at all.

Here he is, trying to kill animals, and playing it off as proper husbandry, teaching all those who come into his store that it's OK to do what he's doing.

He's spouting off about owning 26/2700 snakes. So... does that mean the more snakes you have, the more of an expert you are? Well, I've only got 16 or so, all are in ideal environmental conditions, all are in a relatively sterile environment, and they all have water dishes. Dang, I guess I'm an ignorant newb! I should get a thousand or so more snakes, and treat them all like they can't react to being mistreated, I should not care about any of them at all, and be sure to take away their water for extended periods of time.

That's how the zoo keeps their animals around so long, right?

It frustrates me, that a man in such a role-model position, is teaching everyone that contacts him how to kill their animals, and treat them like their worthless. The SPCA would have shut this place down if it were kittens or puppies or horses. But snakes aren't mammals, they aren't cute and cuddly and they don't have as much public support.

It breaks my heart, living with that knowledge.

You know what I want to do? I want to start and SPCH. Society for Protection against Cruelty to Herps.

The SPCA is -almost- useless when it comes to herps, because it's agents are not trained in the specific needs from one species to subspecies, and any other. Most of them don't know the proper humidty/heat/environment conditions for a ball python.

We really need a division specific to herps, so this cruelty can get nipped in the bud - not after it's dropped it's fruit.

-KB- · #17 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 07:13 PM

I'm with you 100%. SPCH I've often wanted to do somehting like that around my area, even thought of a name "Southeast Texas Reptile Rescue and Placement".....but I didn't have the resources to do it, or the space to keep any reptiles that I DID rescue......We are about to build our house though.....lots of land.....big house....extra rooms......oh yes. Its going to happen. Even if I can only help locally, I can help.

I think it would be awesome to have SPCH chapters all over the US. We should get serious about this. Xieke = awesome.

Xeikeness · #18 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 07:27 PM

lol, Thank you, sug.

I want to get serious about this... I should give the SPCA a call and see what training/certifications/schooling it takes to do something like that, and then specialize it into herps only.

It's a thought.

zebo and nola · #19 (**permalink**) 11-13-2007, 07:32 PM

good luck

LukaTisus · #20 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 12:59 AM

That is an absolute fantastic idea..! It's definetely something that should be persued. Snakes don't get enough care from operations like SPCA and PETA, dangit.. it's about time the herp community took another step forward and provided that for them and put an end to BS stores like the one in this thread!

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