what do you look for in a good breeder?

sherr071 · #1 (**permalink**) 09-04-2006, 04:29 PM

Im leary of buying an unseen snake but it seems to be quite common to buy them online from auctions or just adds online. I asked one breeder about guarentees and he said he didnt offer one and that he only handled his snakes minimally for care. This seems odd to me, or is it the norm?

muzixman · #2 (**permalink**) 09-04-2006, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sherr071

Im leary of buying an unseen snake but it seems to be quite common to buy them online from auctions or just adds online. I asked one breeder about guarentees and he said he didnt offer one and that he only handled his snakes minimally for care. This seems odd to me, or is it the norm?

Its common for breeders who have a lot of snakes not to handle them just for the enjoyment of holding such a wonderfull animal. Unless your Gus he seems to find time to handle and photograph them all or it seems like he does.lol

CraigC · #3 (**permalink**) 09-04-2006, 04:57 PM

Personally, I would not buy an animal from an auction. My thoughts on a good breeder is as follows:

1. Has a reputation for quality animals. (there are places you can ask about them, like the BOI).
2. Has a website with pics of available animals and a clearly stated TOS for buyers.
3. Only uses legal methods of shipment.
4. Will provide additional pics if requested.
5. Only offers well established animals.
6. Provides bloodline info.
7. Will provide after the sale help.
8. Provides accurate care records of the animal.
9. Communicates in a timely fashion.
10. Screens the buyer to be sure they can handle and care for the animal.
Craig

sherr071 · #4 (**permalink**) 09-04-2006, 05:56 PM

Of the following here is what he has done so i would say about half. Thanks for your reply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigC

1. Has a reputation for quality animals. (there are places you can ask about them, like the BOI). excuse a newbies ignorance what is the BOI?
2. Has a website with pics of available animals and a clearly stated TOS for buyers. has sent pics of parents on request.
3. Only uses legal methods of shipment. will ship doesnt say by whom but its $35 for shipping.
4. Will provide additional pics if requested.
5. Only offers well established animals.established? what do you mean by this?
6. Provides bloodline info.[COLOR="Magenta"Will have to ask him this.[/COLOR]
7. Will provide after the sale help.
8. Provides accurate care records of the animal.Has emailed me that they are eating f/t pinkies and are 2 months old and have had 2 sheds.
9. Communicates in a timely fashion. does answer all my questions and emails timely.
10. Screens the buyer to be sure they can handle and care for the animal.
Craig

He has asked me no questions at all.

RioBravoReptiles · #5 (**permalink**) 09-04-2006, 06:56 PM

I gotta say that it is somtimes very hard for a breeder or dealer to find the right customer! ... not just the other way around.
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People have so many preconceptions about the entire experience of acquiring and owning a reptile pet, and many are simply ludicrous. And people's pride and self-image are tied up in it too. Just yeasterday I was completely told off via E-mail (complete with the four-letter words and the 'hate you forever' clause). This guy had asked for info on Corn island boas and I answered.. when he came back with a 'thanks for your reply' and one more question it was late at night and I gave him an off-the-cuff remark along with a 'let me know what else I can do for you', 'best regards'. Well this guy took my answer as somekind of insult. Neither of us has a good opinion of the other.
.
As for the BOI, I get pretty good press in there but imagine I had actually sold that joker something before I ruffled his feathers.. he would put the same selfish and unthinking response there that looked good at that moment and then there it is, deatlhless and world-wide. I don't like the BOI because it is not a substitute for people being adults and working things out.. Also the BOI ultimately places the entire blame for any problems with the animal on the breeder or seller and that's not fair. All you have to do is read these forums and see the basic goofs people make with their animals and set ups and the tragedies that often result.. yet online what we see is "I got a bad boa".
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Ok.. this is beginning to sound like a rant.. so here's my opinion on good breeders or dealers... A successful transaction is a partnership between the seller and buyer. The checklist you've been given is a good one but it's only a start. I'd say buy from someone you know or that's personally recommended by someone you know. That's the best ticket.
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Gus.

NicoleRussell · #6 (**permalink**) 09-04-2006, 07:07 PM

I have had exceptional experiences with Bert from agama..although he's a friend, he started out as just another breeder for me. I have had one transaction after another with no problems. He answered all of questions and continued to be there throguh anything that went on after that.I haven't come across anyone who has had a bad experience with him.
He rarely handles his stock though...his facility is just too large and his work and personal collection is just extremely time consuming. So I would not at all be put off with someone who did not handle their animals.

sherr071 · #7 (**permalink**) 09-04-2006, 07:15 PM

See im used to dogs and know all the questions to ask breeders and what to look for, but snakes this will be my first buy as my garter was WC. I want a nice healthy snake and dont wanna get jipped. This guy happens to be close enough for me to drive to pick it up so thats a plus, no shipping chargers nor shipping the snake. Its done all the time and im sure its fine but it has got to be stressful on them i would think so if i can drive to pick it up i would rather do that. This guy is being patient and seems pretty up front thus far w/ me. Im just somewhat of a pescimist(sp) and dont wanna get taken.
I did find it funny he hasnt asked if this is my first snake though.

sherr071 · #8 (**permalink**) 09-04-2006, 07:16 PM

does he have a site? does he have corns, thats what im looking for.
thanks

RioBravoReptiles · #9 (**permalink**) 09-04-2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sherr071

does he have a site? does he have corns, thats what im looking for.
thanks

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Cornsakes?
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Don Soderberg. The best guy there is. I personally recommend him above everybody else (and that's saying something because there are several good folks doing that business).
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Here's the link:
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http://www.cornsnakes.net/
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Good luck.

sherr071 · #10 (**permalink**) 09-04-2006, 07:51 PM

Wow great site! Now that is what i call proffesional. Thanks

CraigC · #11 (**permalink**) 09-04-2006, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigC
1. Has a reputation for quality animals. (there are places you can ask about them, like the BOI). excuse a newbies ignorance what is the BOI?
2. Has a website with pics of available animals and a clearly stated TOS for buyers. has sent pics of parents on request.
3. Only uses legal methods of shipment. will ship doesnt say by whom but its $35 for shipping.
4. Will provide additional pics if requested.
5. Only offers well established animals.established? what do you mean by this?
6. Provides bloodline info.[COLOR="Magenta"Will have to ask him this.[/color]
7. Will provide after the sale help.
8. Provides accurate care records of the animal.Has emailed me that they are eating f/t pinkies and are 2 months old and have had 2 sheds.
9. Communicates in a timely fashion. does answer all my questions and emails timely.
10. Screens the buyer to be sure they can handle and care for the animal.

1. The BOI for all of it's "quirks", can be a useful tool. You just have to read between the opinionated posts! LOL. Try going to forums for the species you are interested in and ask! You can also ask folks you trust for an honest appraisal, like Gus.

2. Having pics of the parents is a good start, how about siblings?

3. Shipping is a percieved proposition. Some folks have been approved by FedEx but you have to be careful. Lacy Act violations can haunt both the shipper and the receipient. We are very strict about our shipping policies and will only do so via same day airport to airport. Of coarse price of shipping is viewed by most as comparible to the animals price. We only deal in cbb emeralds so $70.00 to $80.00 for domestic is not an issue with $400.00 + animals. BTW, I will pass on an animal if the seller won't ship in this fashion.

4. I believe this is an absolute must, particularly when dealing with expensive animals.

5. Well established, IMO, is 2-3 months of problem free animals that are feeding, with well kept records. This is an area of trust with the breeder that you are getting an animal with no problems. Yes, records can be forged, but reputible breeders won't do so.

6. When I am looking for a particular "look", having access to parent pictures is a must. Sometimes multiple males are used in a breeding project. I will use my judgement as to what I am going to get, based on the breeder giving me accurate info on the project. We always provide this info when we offer animals and include a picture CD of the parents and siblings with each animal.
No one should expect less, particularly with high dollar purchases.

8. If this isn't provided, don't buy! There are exceptions when someone has experience with the species being purchased. As an example, we have had plenty of experience with getting neonate emeralds started. Therfore, I have no problem buying cbb emeralds the haven't eaten for the first time as long as we have knowledge of the breeder. There is risk, but it is very limited.

9. That is great! Just remember that some folks are well motivated to sell! These are usually folks that depend upon reptiles as a primary means of income. This is where a divide occurs with those of us that are hobbyists and those that are a reptile business. I don't depend upon reptile sales to pay the bills, where as it is the sole source of income for others. I can use a lot more discretion in whom I sell to. Not knocking anyone, but you should be aware of the difference.

10. This is a standard we have set for our customers. There are folks that should not own pet rocks. Don't mean to be harsh, just very concerned about who we are selling to and usually request "first right of refusal". Meaning we want the option of buying the animal back if the person decideds to sell.

Craig

ChadRamsey · #12 (**permalink**) 09-04-2006, 10:08 PM

i would say that communication is my deciding factor with a breeder. I also wont do business with someone if i do not speak to them on the phone.

Torin · #13 (**permalink**) 09-04-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigC

1. The BOI for all of it's "quirks", can be a useful tool. You just have to read between the opinionated posts! LOL. Try going to forums for the species you are interested in and ask! You can also ask folks you trust for an honest appraisal, like Gus.

However, you didn't tell him what it is. It is the Board of Inquiry over on Faunaclassifieds.

sherr071 · #14 (**permalink**) 09-04-2006, 11:35 PM

Thank you so much for the info i really appreciate it! Its funny but a lot of what you said is very much like what i would except of from a breeder of dogs so i guess its all boils down to wanting a healthy animal and whats best for them.

CraigC · #15 (**permalink**) 09-05-2006, 11:20 AM

No Problem.

My standards may seem high to some folks, but it keeps the possibility of getting "taken" to minimal levels and makes us much more comfortable when selling.

Craig

sherr071 · #16 (**permalink**) 09-07-2006, 10:10 AM

Ok what about a guarentee? what if they offer none at all? I would think they would offer at least a 48 hr one or a guarenteed live on arrivial, right?

CraigC · #17 (**permalink**) 09-07-2006, 10:19 AM

Walk away!

Craig

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