How long until I should worry?

Bettina · #1 (**permalink**) 05-01-2002, 02:23 AM

My brb hasn't eaten in 25 days. I was wondering if this was a long enough period that I should be very worried. Before that she didn't eat for three weeks, but she was receiving oral Baytril for that time and I'm told that snakes won't eat while they're being given oral antibiotics. As soon as she was done with the treatment, I tried feeding her a f/t mouse from PetSmart but the mouse was rank and obviously had been thawed and refrozen at least once before I got it. It was really gross. Wyrsa snapped at it and then let go it was so gross. I got her a large fuzzy two days later that was fresh and she gobbled it down. She's not popping or wheezing or anything, so I don't think it's her RI coming back. And last week was shedding week, so I didn't really expect her to eat, but it had been two weeks so I thought she might be hungry. Now she won't eat this week and that has me worried. Just wondering if I should be worried or if this is just a moody snake or something. The cage temp is 80 degrees and the humidity in the general area is 70%, while the two hide boxes are at 85% Should I alter any of these conditions?

Bettina
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coferj · #2 (**permalink**) 05-01-2002, 02:11 PM

All in all, it sounds like your conditions are just right. The only thing you might try is setting up a temp gradient. Have the hot side stay about 85 while the cold side sits about 10 degrees cooler. I don't know that this would keep the snake from eating, though. I guess I would leave this up to the experts, b/c I'm new to my brb and haven't had any feeding problems yet. Good luck and keep us posted.
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Barrin · #3 (**permalink**) 05-01-2002, 02:17 PM

Dont worry she will eventually get hungry enuph..
take care.
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Constrictor_BO · #4 (**permalink**) 05-02-2002, 07:59 AM

25 days is nothing. Your BRB will be good for a couple months without having to worry. But it will more than likely eat well before then.
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#5 (**permalink**) 05-02-2002, 08:12 AM

How old/size is the snake ? What are the exact husbandry of the cage it is in also? Like gradient for temps, hides, humidity box at all etc ??

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JuliusSqueezer · #6 (**permalink**) 05-02-2002, 03:37 PM

I see a couple of red flags.
1) antibiotics will dehydrate your snake to some degree and if he is small enough that you are feeding fuzzy mice...he is very prone to dehydration and antibiotics given to any snake under a year old is very dangerous for many reasons. Many develop liver and kidney problems and almost all dehydrate often to the point of no return.
2) back to the fuzzy mouse. Although they may not look it....newborn BRB's can and should take either a hopper mouse or a pink rat for the very first meal. pink or fuzzy mice are just too small for them.
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Bettina · #7 (**permalink**) 05-02-2002, 03:48 PM

As of today she's three months old. She's about two feet long. Her cage is set up as follows. The bottom inch and a half of the cage is filled with water and there's an aquarium heater in the water. Then there's a half an inch gap and a mat covered in newspaper with aspen shavings over that. The aspen shavings are slightly moist but nowhere near wet. The temp in the cage is 80 degrees all over because the water keeps it very constant. I added a hot spot to one side of the cage yesterday where the temperature is like 85-88 degrees. The humidity in the cage in general is 70% and the hide boxes are at 85% and 90%. One hide box has moss in it and the other doesn't. The one with the moss in it is the one at 90%. Also, the general cage humidity might be higher than 70%. I think my humidity guage that I keep in the middle of the cage doesn't work. The cage is humid enough that I sprayed the walls down two days ago and the water droplets only just evaporated. There's a water bowl and a log also in the cage. I have her in a 15 gallon aquarium with 3/4 of the lid covered in plastic and the other 1/4 covered in a damp washcloth.

Bettina
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Bettina · #8 (**permalink**) 05-02-2002, 03:59 PM

Jules,
I do make sure to soak her every day. The antibiotics dose was very small. It was .01cc once a day for ten days. She has eaten once since the antibiotics were done, on April 5, and the mouse I guess could have been called a hopper. It was running around and such before I konked it. It's eyes just weren't open yet. I've been trying smaller meals recently in case she's intimidated by the size of the mice or something. The first week she woulnd't eat she was offered a mouse of the same size as above and the second week a little smaller, the third week was a baby that only just had fur and this week a pinky. She has taken newborn rat pinks before with no problem.
Do you think I should soak her in pedialyte? The pinch test doesn't indicate dehydration, but I could soak her more anyway?

Off to class
Bettina
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coferj · #9 (**permalink**) 05-02-2002, 04:15 PM

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the pinch test?? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]
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mirabelasunshine · #10 (**permalink**) 05-02-2002, 04:18 PM

Have you tried a live or fresh killed prey item? My brb went on "frozen strike" for a while when she was 4-5 months old. She took a few live meals, and half a dozen fresh killed, before she would reliably eat frozen again. I don't know why -- maybe just got bored -- but eventually I had to let her get really hungry before she would take frozen again. You can do that, but if you are concerned and want to get a meal into her, give her a live pink rat. If it's a newborn, it won't be able to hurt her, and if your snake is at all like mine, the rat won't suffer long.
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Constrictor_BO · #11 (**permalink**) 05-02-2002, 05:03 PM

hey cof... THe pinch test is a way to tell if your snake is dehydrated. When you pinch the skin it should return back to it's original position. It the skin does not return to the original position in a couple seconds, your snake is dehydrated and needs a good soaking. Several soaking would be more like it.
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Bettina · #12 (**permalink**) 05-02-2002, 06:38 PM

I tried a live pink this last time and a live barely-fuzzy the time before that. I think the pet shop is beginning to look at me oddly because I keep returning mice [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] I guess I'll just wait some more... If she refuses food again next week is that too soon to make a vet appointment? Like would they just tell me to wait and see?

Bettina
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JuliusSqueezer · #13 (**permalink**) 05-03-2002, 12:23 AM

.01cc? that is 1/100 of a cc...are you sure it wasn't 1/10 of a cc (.1)?? I can't think offhand of any antibiotic that would be perscribed at such a small dosage other than super baytril which is 100 mg per cc whereas regular baytril is 22.7 mg per cc. I would hope that any vet dishing out baytril for such a young snake would go to the weaker strength so that a measurable dosage could be accuratly drawn up. Also, unless a snake is near death anyway and there is nothing to lose by trying, I would never give a snake that young Baytril or Amikacin or any other antibiotic that I know of for that matter. If you typo'ed the dosage and meant .1 cc....then that is not a small dosage. It is figured by body weight and that likely falls into the 10mg/kg dosage range anyway which is as full strength as you can go with any reptile without killing it.

If at this point the snake shows no sign of dehydration....the forced daily soaks are only serving to stress him which could cause the hunger strike. So no...I wouldn't keep pushing him to soak.

That is a rather odd setup you have...I would love to see pictures. What kind of mat do you have there and what holds it up above the water? It actually sounds pretty cool as long as the snake can't get trapped under it and/or burned on the heater. I have thought about cutting a piece of plastic pegboard exactly the size of the tank bottom and putting bricks under it to suspend it above a water level with a heat pad under the cage. I never thought of the fish tank heater idea.
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morti · #14 (**permalink**) 05-03-2002, 12:26 AM

Brett, My vet has prescribed dosages of claforin that small for my neonates.
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Bettina · #15 (**permalink**) 05-03-2002, 01:06 AM

No, it was .01cc of Baytril. I think that's like the smallest dose they could give or something.
I have two squares of Dri-Dek that I trimmed the sides off of. The newspaper serves the combined purpose of keeping the aspen shavings out of the water and keeping the snake from getting into the water. She can't burn herself on the heater unless she can get under the mats because I have the aquarium heater layed sideways in the water. Those things are nice because they come with built-in thermostats. I'll post pictures as soon as I can borrow a digi cam.
I'm not actually forcing my snake to soak. After I take her out of the cage to see how she's doing, I just stick her in her water bowl when I put her back in and she can either soak or not as it feels good to her. Usually she'll chill in the water bowl for a few minutes and then slither back into one of her hides.

Bettina
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Bettina · #16 (**permalink**) 05-05-2002, 08:51 PM

These are pictures of my cage setup.

I cut up some plastic Desani bottles into equal sized rings and set them around the bottom of the cage. That's what's mostly holding up the matting. Since I had to trim a little bit of the Dri-Dek off to fit it in the cage, I glued those pieces onto the sides to hold the matt edges up. Then there's newspaper over the matting and aspen over that. The heater, as seen in the second picture, is on its side underneath the matting. The humidity in the cage is actually between 85%-95% all the time. (I got a digital hygrometer from RadioShack, and, what do you know, the other one was really broken). The temperature also stays within 1 degrees of 80 all the time because of the water.

Also, I wanted to thank everyone for offering me advice and reassurances. Wyrsa ate yesterday, so I'm very relieved. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Bettina
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