Albig questions for Raze

[billwalsh]

Tom,

I have always gravitated toward beak-snouted monitors as a visual preference, but my wife and I are considering an albigularis as our next monitor over the coming 12 months. I had some questions I wanted to PM you but thought they'd make better public questions.

1. The reputation for bone crushing jaws the albigs have precedes them. Have you sustained any injuries or had any close calls? What were the nature of the injuries?

2. My experience with monitors in the past has made me believe a) no monitor is tame, b) most do not enjoy human contact, and c) some learn to tolerate human contact when associating you as a provider. Where does your albig fall on this continuum? How is its disposition? We already know how he feels about light bulbs.

Thanks for any help.
Bill

[razeraze]

Bill,
I do not have a ton of experience with Albigs (juggernaut is my first). But here is what I have learned.
According to most research they seldom get 6 feet. Juggernaut is 3 years old and almost 6 feet, Jody Pieper had a 6 foot Albig, and so did a man named Sean on another forum. So I am not sure we can count on them staying under 5 feet. Now for your direct questions.
1.) bone crushing is true. Though I have not been bitten by my albig I have seen first hand the strength of his jaws. I fed him a clam and he began to get frustrated and crushed the shell. He bit with such force the shell shattered and a piece hit me in the face (almost in my eye) nearly 4 feet away from him. He tends to tail whip and head butt for defense more than bite unlike my last salvator who would bite with little to no warning. His tail is so strong it shakes his cage when he whips. I have no doubt it will break skin and perhaps even bone.
2.) He is more docile than my salvator was but no where near as calm as my exanthematicus. How ever Salvators are supposed to be the "dogs" of the large monitors and exanthematicus are recognized as being very aggressive in captivity. This illustrates my point on behavior perfectly. Just because you have a friend with 20 nice albigs it does not mean yours will be. Not even if produced from his stock. Behavior is not something that can be purchased with any kind of guarantee or even good odds.
I have seen calm niles and aggressive leopard geckos.

Remember this is based on my limited experience with monitors (5+ years).
Hope that helps,
Tom

[billwalsh]

Originally Posted by razeraze

Bill,
I do not have a ton of experience with Albigs (juggernaut is my first). But here is what I have learned.
According to most research they seldom get 6 feet. Juggernaut is 3 years old and almost 6 feet, Jody Pieper had a 6 foot Albig, and so did a man named Sean on another forum. So I am not sure we can count on them staying under 5 feet. Now for your direct questions.

This is good to know. I've run across similar stuff online in the last few weeks, not sure how that research came about. There are some on the popular video sites that are quite hefty.

Originally Posted by razeraze

1.) bone crushing is true. Though I have not been bitten by my albig I have seen first hand the strength of his jaws. I fed him a clam and he began to get frustrated and crushed the shell. He bit with such force the shell shattered and a piece hit me in the face (almost in my eye) nearly 4 feet away from him. He tends to tail whip and head butt for defense more than bite unlike my last salvator who would bite with little to no warning. His tail is so strong it shakes his cage when he whips. I have no doubt it will break skin and perhaps even bone.

How does this compare to your Bosc?

Originally Posted by razeraze

2.) He is more docile than my salvator was but no where near as calm as my exanthematicus. How ever Salvators are supposed to be the "dogs" of the large monitors and exanthematicus are recognized as being very aggressive in captivity. This illustrates my point on behavior perfectly. Just because you have a friend with 20 nice albigs it does not mean yours will be. Not even if produced from his stock. Behavior is not something that can be purchased with any kind of guarantee or even good odds.
I have seen calm niles and aggressive leopard geckos.

This is quite true and is not isolated to reptiles. I was thinking this very thing this morning, we have dealt extensively with rescue of animals of the furry variety due to my wife's veterinary experience. We have cats that are affectionate and cats that hate humans to the core, and have dealt with similar dogs that ran the same wide berth in behavior. They have individual personalities and people accept that about dogs and cats, why is it so difficult to accept for reptiles?

That being said, there are definitely generalizations that can be made, wherein I guess was my question about the albigs since my knowledge of them is so slim. For example, when I was into some of the smaller species, I had some timorensis that fit the traditional bill of being of the "hide all the time and ambush prey" disposition. I almost never saw them and isolated my experiences with them to cage cleaning and feeding, because the slightest deviation caused severe stress and flighty behavior. That's pretty run of the mill when it comes to that species and fits reputation, so a more docile Timor would be the exception rather than the rule.

Originally Posted by razeraze

Remember this is based on my limited experience with monitors (5+ years).
Hope that helps,
Tom

Yes definitely. I feel the same as what you mentioned awhile back, I know your albig was happened upon and would not be my first choice either, but for some reason I am starting to "warm up" to them. I think the glory of one of the mid/larger monitors without the spectacular and intricate caging requirements of a nile or salvator is what is attracting me.

Bill

[razeraze]

Originally Posted by seriouslythough

How does this compare to your Bosc?

The Bosc has a head about the size of a golf ball and can crush mice skulls fairly easy. The Albig has a head the size of 9 inch soft ball or bigger and much more strength.

Originally Posted by seriouslythough

This is quite true and is not isolated to reptiles. I was thinking this very thing this morning, we have dealt extensively with rescue of animals of the furry variety due to my wife's veterinary experience. We have cats that are affectionate and cats that hate humans to the core, and have dealt with similar dogs that ran the same wide berth in behavior. They have individual personalities and people accept that about dogs and cats, why is it so difficult to accept for reptiles?
That being said, there are definitely generalizations that can be made, wherein I guess was my question about the albigs since my knowledge of them is so slim. For example, when I was into some of the smaller species, I had some timorensis that fit the traditional bill of being of the "hide all the time and ambush prey" disposition. I almost never saw them and isolated my experiences with them to cage cleaning and feeding, because the slightest deviation caused severe stress and flighty behavior. That's pretty run of the mill when it comes to that species and fits reputation, so a more docile Timor would be the exception rather than the rule.

Bigger monitors tend to be flighty when small but more bold when they get larger. Flight switches to fight at about 4 feet.

Originally Posted by seriouslythough

Yes definitely. I feel the same as what you mentioned awhile back, I know your albig was happened upon and would not be my first choice either, but for some reason I am starting to "warm up" to them. I think the glory of one of the mid/larger monitors without the spectacular and intricate caging requirements of a nile or salvator is what is attracting me.
Bill

They are definitely easier than a nile or salvator due to no large water feature needed.

[billwalsh]

Nice, thanks for the replies, this has definitely helped.

Originally Posted by razeraze

Flight switches to fight at about 4 feet.

I think that this is one of those pricelessly phrased statements I'll likely never forget.

Regards,
Bill

[razeraze]

No problem. After sexual maturity they tend to change and that is my best way of describing it.