lime sand as a bedding?

[chrispaine]

Well I went to the place where they had the decomposed granite (supose to be the best stuff to use for monitors and burrowing reptiles) and the stuff they had was not as fine as the stuff that you have and also has lots a small rocks. What I did find is somehting called 'Lime Sand' IT is really just some small rocks and more of a fine sand type stuff. It seems to hold moisture well and maybe even a burrow.... this its ok

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[Ranger]

ever see "Goodfellas"? They used lime in the hole to help the dead body decompose faster (and get rid of the evidence).

If you work with cement (lime is an ingedient) without gloves, it really damages your skin. I'd not risk it.

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[unluckyseventeen]

Actually, for snakes, it really sucks. If anything, any kind of sand will completely deplete your humidity, which is why you use it for desert-like environments. I guess if you had a Sand Boa it'd probably be OK, but for a red-tail... no. You're either going to have like 10% humidity, or the sand will just turn to dirt, if you can even manage to get it humid enough in there.

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[chrispaine]

well right now it is off the charts on the humidity gage, its not really a sand, its more fine than normal sand. What my concern is will the lime be bad for the lizard?

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[toker]

Personally I would not do it. the only time I have used any type of sand is with my geckos, and that is soon to be changed. Icky stuff.

Stick with mulch or newspapper, you will be better off.

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[Dachande]

i would never suggest newspaper for a monitor, but it is better than lime. here in the southern US many people put lime around their chicken coops to keep snakes out. it works well, seeing as it causes chemical burns on serpentine scales.
stay away from it. soil is your best friend. mulch will suffice if you cannot get good soil and is the only thing i would suggest as an alternative choice to soil. i cannot find decomposed granite, but my topsoil works fine. if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

if humidity is an issue lower you wattage, raise the basking spot and cover most of the top of your enclosure to reduce evaporation.

[nomadbean]

Go to Lowe's or Home Depot this time of year and get a big bag of Spangham moss or canadian moss, top soil (with no additives or fertilizer), and some Eucalyptus or Aspen mulch and mix it up. It makes our monitor cage about 60% humidity and we live in a desert-like area, they can dig some and it cleans easily. Love it. Lime seems like a real bad idea for all the reasons listed above. There is a local pet store here that still insists Pine is the best bedding for snakes, they are in the business of making money not making healthy pets. Think about it- your pet dies and they make more money on your next pet- horrible but probably true. Good luck with them.
Trina
OMNIherp, LLC

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[chrispaine]

thanks for the heads up.... wish I didint just spend $20 on a few hundered pounds of it, but oh well... my falt for not asking first.... I am just going to try some dirt from my yard again (last time I didnt like it cause it was too loose and would just get dusty but that was store bought... try some from my yard its got clay in it too). thanks again.

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[chrispaine]

he was in there for a night..... do you think that will hurt him????

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[amercnwmn]

Originally Posted by chrispaine

he was in there for a night..... do you think that will hurt him????

Soak him really well for about 20mins
I dont think it will hurt too much..
But I would def get him off of it ASAP even if he had to go without substrate

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[AJS]

After years of keeping all my monitors on a decomposedgranite/ topsoil mix I've finally come round to the idea that one size definitely does not fit all. Sure the mix was adequate, the monitors burrowed and laid in it but there was something missing, one of those annoying indefinables you only pick up on when you'vebeen around your animals a long time. So now my dwarfs are maintained on loam it really is especially good for ackies but works great with other odatria (except kimms, more on them in a minute) it burrows great, holds humidity without becoming waterlogged and the animals seem to interact with it in a much more positive way. For my kim rocks, mertems and jobiensis I found a very fine river silt that is even better than the loam it suits the mertens because theylive on similiar substrates in the wild, it suits the jobiensis because they prefer a more rocky, drier environment than other indicus complex monitors and it suits the kim rocks because it it a very fine material(which they seem to prefer) and it burrows an asolute treat. My other indicus complex monitors and my black and brown roughnecks are maintained on humus with big piles of leaf litter they burrow and hide in the leaves and nest great in the humus. Humus has a greater degree of bio activity than all other substrates which is great for rainforest species and it also helps eggs survvive much longer if you miss them. Finally, I now keep my prasinus and macraei on a pure water substrate it adds humidity and helps maintain a clean enclosure.
The lesson I have learned is that each individual species has their own preference, and while the standard backyard/ topsoil substrate is a great starting point(*edit* I used it for years without any problem) it is the little enhancements that help to further the captive environment, and at the end of the day that is what is all about.
So think about your substrate, think about the ph, bioactivity, aggregate size, individual constituents, how the soil in the natural habitat developed, what specific process of erosion caused the soil to form, think about the water tablle in the natural environment and how the soil changes with the different seasonal cycles. Sure we can't recreate nature inside but everything helps.
Finally, try some Australian forums see if anyone out there can provide you with information on the type and tilth of the soils(other keepers can try Indonesian farms or various conservation, environment agencies for their monitors country of origin)
Thanks, AJS

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[chrispaine]

Originally Posted by AJS

After years of keeping all my monitors on a decomposedgranite/ topsoil mix I've finally come round to the idea that one size definitely does not fit all. Sure the mix was adequate, the monitors burrowed and laid in it but there was something missing, one of those annoying indefinables you only pick up on when you'vebeen around your animals a long time. So now my dwarfs are maintained on loam it really is especially good for ackies but works great with other odatria (except kimms, more on them in a minute) it burrows great, holds humidity without becoming waterlogged and the animals seem to interact with it in a much more positive way. For my kim rocks, mertems and jobiensis I found a very fine river silt that is even better than the loam it suits the mertens because theylive on similiar substrates in the wild, it suits the jobiensis because they prefer a more rocky, drier environment than other indicus complex monitors and it suits the kim rocks because it it a very fine material(which they seem to prefer) and it burrows an asolute treat. My other indicus complex monitors and my black and brown roughnecks are maintained on humus with big piles of leaf litter they burrow and hide in the leaves and nest great in the humus. Humus has a greater degree of bio activity than all other substrates which is great for rainforest species and it also helps eggs survvive much longer if you miss them. Finally, I now keep my prasinus and macraei on a pure water substrate it adds humidity and helps maintain a clean enclosure.
The lesson I have learned is that each individual species has their own preference, and while the standard backyard/ topsoil substrate is a great starting point(*edit* I used it for years without any problem) it is the little enhancements that help to further the captive environment, and at the end of the day that is what is all about.
So think about your substrate, think about the ph, bioactivity, aggregate size, individual constituents, how the soil in the natural habitat developed, what specific process of erosion caused the soil to form, think about the water tablle in the natural environment and how the soil changes with the different seasonal cycles. Sure we can't recreate nature inside but everything helps.
Finally, try some Australian forums see if anyone out there can provide you with information on the type and tilth of the soils(other keepers can try Indonesian farms or various conservation, environment agencies for their monitors country of origin)
Thanks, AJS

Wow, sounds like you have alot of history with monitors..... very cool... what are you keeping now a days? and thanks for all the info.. I think I am just going to go back to dirt-again.

--- I did soak him for awhile and I dont think it will hurt him, but I wonder if it could really 'burn' his skin like what was said above?

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[Dachande]

when it's packed well it holds a stronger burrow.
chrispaine-how deep is the soil in the cage? i have over 1.5 feet in the argus cage and the bottom 4 inches is hard as rock do to weight of the upper lifts. it may help to compact the soil when it still has good moisture (fresh out of the bag) by tamping it. i myself have thought about mixing soil from my jobsite with the topsoil to get better substrate. but the pure topsoil is working fine. i'm wanting to learn a little more about the context from the soil engineers at work too before using it. they test all our ditches for proper compaction and they test the soil before we backfill. we've had several tons of dirt hauled out because it was to dry to backfill and tamp. they can tell me anything i want to know about dirt on the job. i may take a sample of cage soil in for a test.

[AJS]

Hi chrispaine, I've been keeping monitors for about 6 years now, not a long time but if you can go big then do it has always been my philosophy. I have also done a lot of herping in New Guinea and with any luck I'm off to Australia after my third year exams. At the moment I am keeping V. acanthurus acanthurus, V. glauerti, V. storri, V. tristis tristis, V. jobiensis, V. doreanus, V. yuwonoi(stay away from these psychotic monsters at all costs hahahaha) V. dumerili, V. rudicollis, V. mertensi, V. prasinus, V. macraei, I am looking after a group of V. pilbarensis, and I am about to get a group of gilleni in the next few days. Aside from that I am on the lookout for V. spenceri and V. mitchelli. I recently had an application for V. bengalensis turned down by an arrogant official who was upset because I go to a better university than he did. Aside from that I keep gilas, naultinus and uroplatus geckos, Diamond pythons, bredls pythons, Timor pythons and a small collection of venomous (red bellied blacksnakes, red rattlesnakes, mexican lance headed rattlesnakes, waglers and sumatran pit vipers, I am also planning on getting some bushmasters in the future)
As you can probably guess looking after my menagerie is a full time job!
Thanks, AJS

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