Sav bite sends me to the ER: Have questions

[TrpnBils]

I posted this on another forum, but I wanted to get some opinions from people that keep monitors. This'll be a re-read for a couple people here, so I apologize for that, I just want to get as much info as possible.

I've had my Sav for about a month now. He's 2 years old but was neglected and is only about 17" long. Fecal came back negative about a week or two ago. He's fairly aggressive, and I've been bitten about half a dozen times or so with no ill effects other than pain and a little blood. On Friday night, he got me real good on the arm but didn't cause me to bleed or anything. About 20 minutes later I had a bad sore throat, my chest and back hurt, and my neck was stiff. I figured I must be getting sick or something, so I went to bed around 11:00. At 1:00am, I woke up and literally every square inch of my body from my head to my feet was bruised, my tongue was swollen, and I was having trouble swallowing.

I went to the ER (off topic, but they told me the parking lot was closed, so I had to park 3 blocks away and walk. I was not happy). They didn't do a thing for me. The only known allergy I have is antihistamines, which didn't help the situation because they apparently couldn't give me anything else to help. Luckily, everything started to get a little better on its own. The doc went and did some "research" online (and called poison control, and if I may say so: WTF!?), came back and asked me AGAIN what kind of lizard it was. I told her it was a savannah monitor, so she asked me if it was black with orange beaded skin. I think she did a search on venomous lizards and thought I had a beaded or a gila monster....I dunno. To sum it up, they said that they couldn't confirm it was the bite that caused the reaction, but they had no idea what else it could've been. I'm pretty much fine now, just a little sore and the bite itches, but that's it. I can't risk a worse reaction, so I'm trading the Sav for something else hopefully later this week.

A little background on myself - LIke I said, he's bitten me before, with no reaction on my part. I've been bitten by wild and captive snakes several times with no reaction on my part. I've been bitten by other lizards (Tokays, and prehensile-tailed skinks most notably) with no reaction on my part. I'm a part-time reptile keeper at the local zoo, so I come in contact with all sorts of herps on a daily basis, and I've never had any kind of reaction to a bite from any animal before.

So here are a few questions I've been trying to get answered, and hopefully somebody here can help:

1) I'm assuming this will happen again at least as bad, if not worse, if this lizard were to bite me again. Should I expect a similar reaction to a bite from another monitor?

2) Same as above, except should I expect this from ALL reptile bites for any reason now? If so, there goes my job and my hobbies.

3) I'm going to see if I can get a prescription for an Epi-pen in case this happens again, but since they couldn't 100% confirm that this was the result of the bite, I may have to do some research to prove a point. I looked online and found limited info, and I've been talking to other herpers at work and they tell me that monitors and skinks in particular are well known carriers of some nasty stuff in their saliva. Is this true for monitors any more than it is for other species of lizards or snakes? If so, what is it that's in their saliva?

4) I'm just curious, has anything like this happened to anyone else with monitors?

I'm at a loss for what to say because I REALLY hope this isn't something I need to worry about with every reptile I touch for the rest of my life. I'm just trying to get some answers, so any info you guys can give me is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

-Jeff-

[gemisnake]

Any reaction to the bite was most likely due to bacteria in the monitors mouth or exposure to bacteria afterwards. I would not suspect you are allergic to reptile bites in general. Same goes for other animals. I work in an animal hospital and have gotten bit/scratched many times. One time a cat bite will do nothing but hurt, next time it swells up and causes other symptoms depending on how dirty the pets mouth is. Just take extra precautions to avoid bites like wearing gloves, as brushing your monitors teeth is not suggested!

[ann0306]

Does anyone remember when Crush got bit by his monitor (black throat maybe?) and had that awful reaction? This sounds like the same thing.

[TrpnBils]

Originally Posted by gemisnake

Same goes for other animals. I work in an animal hospital and have gotten bit/scratched many times. One time a cat bite will do nothing but hurt, next time it swells up and causes other symptoms depending on how dirty the pets mouth is. Just take extra precautions to avoid bites like wearing gloves, as brushing your monitors teeth is not suggested!

That's what has me really freaked out. I've worked with wildlife for 4 years now and have been bitten, scratched, bled on, puked on, poo'd on by dozens of different species of reptiles, birds of prey, and mammals and I have NEVER had anything even remotely bad come out of it. Quite honestly, this was the most positive sounding reply I've gotten from anybody on the topic, so I'm glad to hear it.

[Shadrach]

Maybe just maybe the answer is somewhere else than the monitor. Just for the heck of it what type of food did you eat prior to the bite? Reason I ask several people each year eat things and all of a sudden find out they have allergies to the food. IE myself for years have eaten shellfish with no ill effects, a couple years ago I swelled up like a blowfish and landed in the ER getting shots of the good stuff to bring down the hives and swelling. I was told then that if I ever tried shellfish again to be close to a hospital. Since I have went back to eating crab, shrimp, & etc with no adverse effects but thats no to say they wont surface again one day. So I was thinking maybe you should retrace your steps of that day you may find a better explaination for the events. Just trying to give you some ideas I'd hate to see you give your monitor away and later find out it was something else that caused the illness.

[Creolin]

First of all, did they actually diagnose you with an allergic reaction? As we get older, you can develop allergies to pretty much anything. In a reptile bite (non-venomous), it can be from bacteria or saliva. But it could also be from any cage items that you may have including the substrate that you are using. If you recently have gotten new substrate, it could have been sprayed with chemicals. Allergic reactions can be difficult to diagnose as they can develop quickly and can come from pretty much anything.

An epi-pen would work if it was an allergic reaction, but histamine blockers are what fixes the problem. Since you listed that as an allergy, you need to be very careful and want to monitor what you touch. If you have another reaction, you need to begin trying to figure out what the common things you came in contact were each time.

Most hospitals and physicians are not familiar with any type of snake or snake bite. Doc's like you see on TV in Venom ER are very rare. I recently heard a local physician amputated a guys finger after he was bitten by a copperhead. I believe he was rapidly sued after the guy got out of the hospital. Most of the time, they will try to attribute the problem to a venomous snake or lizard, as happened in your case.

Just because you had a reaction to one animal doesn't mean you will have a reaction to another animal of the same species. I have developed an allergy to cats in my older years. Some cats I can still touch or hold, others will nearly put me in the hospital due to breathing and swelling problems.

If you discuss this with a allergist or some dermatologist, they can do allergy testing on you to determine if you would react to any particular substance. If you do, they can prescribe you an epi-pen for those instances. Most epi-pens are expensive, however, so you need to be prepared for that.

You need to try and remember anything new you came in contact with that particular night, other than the bite (which was not new.) I have had a patient that was wearing a new sweater in February (after she had gotten it at Christmas) and ended up in the hospital. It took everyone awhile to figure out what was actually causing the problem.

As for my credentials to speak concerning this: I have been a paramedic for 16 years, and I am currently completing nursing school. I have dealt with herps for 30 years and taught many physicians and nurses how to recognize and treat snake bites.

Hope this helps,

Charles

[TrpnBils]

some good advice there, thanks...

as far as the food goes, I'm a 22 year old bachelor. I had the same thing that night that I had the night before, and again tonight: spaghetti, and I've never heard of a pasta allergy...lol.

Substrate: I have indoor/outdoor carpeting as substrate, and it's fairly old so I've been in contact with it a lot. I didn't do anything different that night than I had before, it's just the whole idea of it happening within 15 minutes or so of the bite that makes me think it's connected.

I honestly don't think I was in contact with anything new that day. I did stuff at work just like I always do, and then spent the evening at home. What can I say? I lead a boring life!

[wreckwriter]

Interesting. Some of the symptoms sound like anaphylaxis (trouble swallowing), others don't (whole body bruising), at least like the anaphylaxis that I experienced from a medicine allery (which, btw, came upon me suddenly at about 30 years old). The part I find most interesting is you say the latest bite didn't cause bleeding. That would have to be a most serious allergy to put you into anaphylaxis from skin contact with saliva.

I can't be anywhere close to certain but I think something other than the lizard may be the cause.

[TrpnBils]

Originally Posted by wreckwriter

Interesting. Some of the symptoms sound like anaphylaxis (trouble swallowing), others don't (whole body bruising), at least like the anaphylaxis that I experienced from a medicine allery (which, btw, came upon me suddenly at about 30 years old). The part I find most interesting is you say the latest bite didn't cause bleeding. That would have to be a most serious allergy to put you into anaphylaxis from skin contact with saliva.

I can't be anywhere close to certain but I think something other than the lizard may be the cause.

I should clarify something about the wound not bleeding this time. Most of the other times, he got ahold of something solid like a finger and bit deep. This time, it was on the side of my arm and he didn't bite deep, but he did shake and eventually roll over (hmm...it sounds like I'm training a dog ). He did break the skin in 2, possibly 3 places, but even when I was cleaning the bite, I tried to get it to bleed to push any bacteria out, but couldn't get even 1 drop. So physically anyway it was not a bad bite. I thought maybe he had lost a tooth or something and that's why it wasn't bleeding, but I couldn't find anything like that.

I've only found one other person that's had a bad reaction from a monitor bite, so I'm wondering if maybe it was something else too. But WHAT?? I honestly don't think I was in contact with anything new that day, and just the fact that this all started within 10 minutes of the bite makes that possibility a hard one to shake in my mind. Then again, just because I can't find anybody else that's had this kind of reaction to a sav bite doesn't close the book on it in my opinion. I was talking to my boss about it this morning and she told me that she's allergic to elephants (again, we work at a zoo, so it's not THAT out there...lol). I'll bet if she asked 100 other people if they had an allergy to elephants, she wouldn't find anybody either.

Anyway, somebody mentioned spiders to me this morning. The apartment I rent has its fair share, and when I was handling the monitor that night, I was lying on the floor over in the one corner of my livingroom and just letting him walk around on the carpet between me and the wall. There's definately a possibility that I got bit by a spider while I was down there. On the other hand, I haven't noticed anything on me that looks like a spider bite (not from pictures I've seen anyway....don't they usually cause major swelling and bruising right around the bite?)

So it's still up in the air, but to be on the safe side, I'm still going to trade the Sav for something else. I'm out of college, but I'm in a 1 year program to get certified to teach high school biology. My plan is to use my reptiles as classroom learning tools (i.e. My corn snake will make a good visual example for a genetics lesson, etc). I don't want to have a potentially dangerous animal in a classroom, even for a day, that's for sure.

	Corn Snake The Corn Snake or Red Rat Snake (Elaphe guttata) is a species of Rat Snake.

[eddie]

as far as the food goes, I'm a 22 year old bachelor. I had the same thing that night that I had the night before, and again tonight: spaghetti, and I've never heard of a pasta allergy...lol.

Leftovers do it every time.....

[wreckwriter]

Originally Posted by eddie

Leftovers do it every time.....

True enough! In regards to the original quote, while I've never heard of a pasta allergy, tomatos are a different story.....

[SSReptiles]

I would think that since he has bitten you so many times, but this time he got you on the forearm. This is closer to the heart and possibly a bigger freeway to many veins and mussles. So his bite now did effect you much more. Normally when you get bit, the wound bleeds, then bruises over or scabs over. Since he bit you in a really tender area, you had a huge reaction to it. Your body reacted like this because it's trying to protect itself. I'm not sure, but that is what I have heard many times when someone was hit or injected something in that area. Also, he may have bitten a vein and caused it to collapse and then caused your body to fight was injected into that area.