Internal parasites

alphafem · #1 (**permalink**) 09-14-2004, 10:29 PM

OK my Savannah is being treated for worms. In the future how do I prevent re-infestation?

pathfinder36 · #2 (**permalink**) 09-14-2004, 10:50 PM

PM NicoleRussell. She is the local lizard expert. If all else fails, e-mail her. I know she's been out quite a bit lately. Good luck.

JuliusSqueezer · #3 (**permalink**) 09-14-2004, 11:34 PM

Feed only f/t rodents. Live or freshly killed rodents can and will pass along worms. Keep the cage clean. The following is a rough guide on how MOST common species of worms tend to cycle....Worms and other intestinal parasites live in the gut and lay eggs in passing fecal matter and they hatch and reinfest anything coming in contact with the poop. The larvae will burrow through the skin and enter the blood stream or into muscle. Those entering muscle are usually trapped there and become benign but in some cases can somehow make it to the offspring and infect unlaid eggs even years later. The ones that make it to the blood will work their way into the lungs and stay there drinking blood till they pupate. Once they pupate, they will crawl up the trachea and then down the esophagus where they are swallowed to the gut where they will lay more eggs thus completing the cycle. In the wild, one or two generations of parasites usually cycle out without an immediate reoccurance. In captivity however, it is unlikely they can avoid a reinfestation and so parasite loads can become heavy and deadly. They can only be treated while they are in the gut. You do not want to kill them in the lungs because they will rot there and cause infection/necrotic tissue in the lungs. This is bad....very bad. Treating the gut worms just kills the adults and they release and pass with the feces. This is good. very good. The reason you have to treat weekly for awhile is to be sure and catch up with all stages of development. ie: killing the adults will not also kill the larvae and pupas that haven't made it to the gut yet. I can not stress enough how important it is to keep the cage sterile while treating for worms. As soon as he poops, you need to be there cleaning and disinfecting. Wear gloves too. many common parasites found in reptiles will also infect humans. Good Luck.

NicoleRussell · #4 (**permalink**) 09-15-2004, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Feed only f/t rodents.

AMEN JULES

Live or freshly killed rodents can and will pass along worms. Keep the cage clean. The following is a rough guide on how MOST common species of worms tend to cycle....Worms and other intestinal parasites live in the gut and lay eggs in passing fecal matter and they hatch and reinfest anything coming in contact with the poop. The larvae will burrow through the skin and enter the blood stream or into muscle. Those entering muscle are usually trapped there and become benign but in some cases can somehow make it to the offspring and infect unlaid eggs even years later. The ones that make it to the blood will work their way into the lungs and stay there drinking blood till they pupate. Once they pupate, they will crawl up the trachea and then down the esophagus where they are swallowed to the gut where they will lay more eggs thus completing the cycle. In the wild, one or two generations of parasites usually cycle out without an immediate reoccurance. In captivity however, it is unlikely they can avoid a reinfestation and so parasite loads can become heavy and deadly. They can only be treated while they are in the gut. You do not want to kill them in the lungs because they will rot there and cause infection/necrotic tissue in the lungs. This is bad....very bad. Treating the gut worms just kills the adults and they release and pass with the feces. This is good. very good. The reason you have to treat weekly for awhile is to be sure and catch up with all stages of development. ie: killing the adults will not also kill the larvae and pupas that haven't made it to the gut yet. I can not stress enough how important it is to keep the cage sterile while treating for worms. As soon as he poops, you need to be there cleaning and disinfecting. Wear gloves too. many common parasites found in reptiles will also infect humans.

MR. SQUEEZER KNOWS HIS PARASITES...BE IT LIZARD OR SNAKE

Good Luck.

alphafem · #5 (**permalink**) 09-15-2004, 02:04 AM

She wants to treat him again in about a week and a half (2 weeks from vist) Then one more time for sure. So three total then a fecal to make sure he doesn't need another treatment.

OK so any advice on appitite booster? Someone suggested commercial appitite booster. Anyone know a good one? Or anything he will love. Fattening isn't that big of an issue right now.. He is pretty underweight. I am just trying to keep him injesting stuff?

I am trying to get him healthy again. He is eating (a small amout) daily now. Bolied chicken livers have been a miracle food. ^___^

What about crickets? Should I try the canned one?

Any advice would help allot. This is my first Savannah and I wanna get him healthy.

Vet said he could have small amounts of veggies or even smaller amounts of fruit. Though she said he prolly won't eat very much. Should I "force" feed him a drop or two of so high nutrient greens? She gave me tools and directions on how to force feed but she said it wasn't a necassaty yet.

IDK... Help!!! He really is looking better and better but I just want him to feel better. Ya know......

JuliusSqueezer · #6 (**permalink**) 09-15-2004, 06:17 AM

vitamin B-12 for appetite.

Canned crickets suck. Nothing will eat them.

veggies...ok this is where Nicole or someone that likes things with legs will be more help lol. I've never heard of feeding any monitor veggies but I've never kept a monitor of any kind any longer than it took me to find them a good home and they were always rat gobbling adults. If the lizard is eating, force feeding will cause you some steps backwards. Force feeding any reptile should always be a last ditch effort just when the poor animal is teetering on death. It is extremely stressful and a very good way to get a feeding animal to never feed again.

alphafem · #7 (**permalink**) 09-15-2004, 06:51 AM

Lizard B-12?????

LOL @ canned crickets

Yea....vet said is wasn't a necassaity... She said he could go over a week with no improvement before she would recommend/insist "making" him eat. He has eaten 3 days in a row. Which is better than he has done in 2 weeks. He "pooped" out allot of little white lice looking worms. So as long as he is making steps forward I don't wanna do anything that is gonna push him backwards.

Thank you very much. I am new with him but I do wish to know everything so forgive me if I sound stupid about all this. There is ALLOT to learn. Thank you for your help.

alphafem · #8 (**permalink**) 09-29-2004, 01:18 AM

Update:

Loki (name changed) went back to the vet for his second worming on sat. He went from about 140 gm to a little over 200 gm in two weeks. The vet is very pleased. She said cut back on chick livers (too much vit A) and up the crix. He still won't touch a pinky she said this may or may not come. She said just bring in a stool sample in two weeks to make sure he doesn't need a third worming. He just ate his first live fish (a comet) which he loved. How often can he have live fish???

Just wanted to share my excitement. Now all we are doing is being nice and quite around him. Keeping him fed and happy waiting for him to realize we aren't gonna hurt him. I know this will take time.

NicoleRussell · #9 (**permalink**) 09-29-2004, 10:50 AM

feeder fish can harbor more parasites then any other live feeder. I used to feed them to my waterdragons but have since stopped out of paranoia

alphafem · #10 (**permalink**) 09-29-2004, 01:36 PM

Ummmmm GeRRRReat..............

Thank you for telling me though.

JuliusSqueezer · #11 (**permalink**) 10-01-2004, 03:46 PM

..also while tastey. any of the goldfish you may want to use as feeders, if fed often over any period of time are toxic to pretty much anything...even frat boys. Try a piece of frozen fish from your freezer cut into strips. Thaw it out, make sure it's warm and you may have to wiggle it a bit on tongs if you insist he has to have fish. It sounds like he is eating fine though. It's to be expected for him to lose appetite when his gut was full of worms. Sooo no need to keep worrying. He will plump up big and strong soon enough. It doesn't need to happen overnight.

NicoleRussell · #12 (**permalink**) 10-01-2004, 04:34 PM

I agree---I went from gold's to minnows to now whatever is on sale at A & P

alphafem · #13 (**permalink**) 10-03-2004, 07:44 AM

No more live fishys... I don't want him sick again. One more fecal in about a week so we will be able to make sure he is fine.

You guys rock!!!

He is eating fine. Just in the last 2 days has he started eating canned Monitor diet. I have had it and been offering it but he wasn't interested. Yesterday I offered him it with a tiny bit of liver mixed in. Today I gave it to him straight. He gobbled it up quick.

One question? The can say offer every other day. I feed him about a table spoon everyday. Is that ok? He is always hungry when I give it to him. I just don't want him to be hungry right now......

Lets see..This week first good week of eating he had...
Sun or Mon: 15-20 crix
Tue: little scrabbled egg tiny bit liver (offered monitor diet he didnt eat it)
Wed: 20 crix, comet (fish)
Thurs: left over crix from day before (he was a bit bloated so I didn't push him. )
Fri: little liver mixed with tbs monitor diet (he ate this with a few bites left behind)
Sat: about a tbs monitor diet (which he ate)
he will prolly get crix tomorrow.....

Does this look like good feeding??? Keep in mind I am nursing him back to health. *is nervous*

suggestions/comment much needed/wanted

NicoleRussell · #14 (**permalink**) 10-03-2004, 01:19 PM

have you tried appropriate sized frozen thawed whole prey (rats or mice?)
That canned stuff is ok as a treat but try and stick to whole prey, crix and some meats sprinkled with bone meal, pulverized eg shells and or vitamin supplements.

alphafem · #15 (**permalink**) 10-03-2004, 03:30 PM

He will not touch a pinky....

He will eat crix.

I dust with Herptivite 3xs a week (was condtion given by his vet)

OK so basically crix only...( Yes we tried f/t) I figure once his appitite gets bigger maybe he will be interested again. He wants nothing to do with them...
I hate to say this but should I cut them in half or something?... I am not real sure I wanna do that.

He is still on pinkys... he isn't a very big lizard...so no rats yet. I figured when he got bigger and needed bigger prey maybe he might be interested in mice/rats.

alphafem · #16 (**permalink**) 10-03-2004, 03:38 PM

Thank you sooooooo very much for talking to me. I may seem a bit slow and full of questions but I really just want to to this right.

NicoleRussell · #17 (**permalink**) 10-03-2004, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphafem

First you say:
He will not touch a pinky....

Then you say:
He is still on pinkys... he isn't a very big lizard...so no rats yet. I figured when he got bigger and needed bigger prey maybe he might be interested in mice/rats.
??

Let me know which it is.

OK so basically crix only...( Yes we tried f/t) I figure once his appitite gets bigger maybe he will be interested again. He wants nothing to do with them...

Just get him on the road to eating---I know he's there but keep him on that road for a while then you can fine tune his diet more. How large is he?

alphafem · #18 (**permalink**) 10-03-2004, 04:39 PM

He is still on pinkys..... as in he is small so I don't offer him any larger.

About 15 inches long. When hubby gets back Ill get a better length. His space between his eyes is about 1/2 inch his head is about 1 to 1 1/2 inches long (where it mets his neck).

EDIT: His vet paper says .16 kgs vet said a little over 200 gms when I asked for a conversion.... I am sure he has put on weight in the last week.

NicoleRussell · #19 (**permalink**) 10-04-2004, 02:25 AM

you could/
try a fuzzymouse---or a day old quai\

alphafem · #20 (**permalink**) 10-04-2004, 04:11 AM

I may have to try the quail.

but...........*drum roll*

Today I got crix and (2) pinkys I offer one to him and Merlin (my BD) gets the other. At first he ignored it. Then I picked it up and put in near the intrance to his cave, which the pinky wobbled into.... He (Loki) came out with it in his mouth!!!!!!!!!! I am very relieved. Now as long as he keeps it up I will feel much better.

Thank you very much!

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