Af-rocks?????

bigred · #1 (**permalink**) 05-09-2002, 09:25 AM

hi. I live in Cape Town and have been keeping snakes for about 12 years. I have kept redtails,rainbows,yellow anacondas, and a 16ft burm(she died [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img] ).
I have been looking for an African Rock under 6 mnths of age for about 9 mnths now. In that time I have spoken to many people and read many articles on the net about rocks and how aggro they are.
Is this true for most rocks? If I follow my plan of getting a young 'un and heaping love , affection and mice onto it, will it become relatively tame? Are they as jumpy as retics?
If anyone has had any experiences with rocks, good or bad, I would appreciate the advice.
Thanks
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Dr.Oviparous · #2 (**permalink**) 05-09-2002, 09:34 AM

I have no expierience with rocks, but someone will be along soon with an answer for ya.

let me be the first to say.........WELCOME TO RTB!!!!!!!! -Juggalo

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"Well, it didn't look like a one horse town, but try finding a decent hair jelly!" -Eulisses E McGill

mirabelasunshine · #3 (**permalink**) 05-09-2002, 09:40 AM

I've never kept one, but I've had my ear to the ground for a while and I really haven't heard anybody describe theirs in glowing terms yet. I've heard pretty much what you've heard... the reptile place near me (nationally known, quite reputable) kept a 13' female for sale for half a year with a label on her cage "Snappy! Large and unpredictable. Not for the faint of heart," during which time I think someone worked with her quite a bit. After those months her tag got downgraded to "Not too <forgot word -- something like 'aggressive'> but hisses a lot." She sold not long after. Another one, a juvie, was labeled "Not Psychotic."

I'll be interested to see what else you hear, but from what I gather the odds are against this species growing up cuddly.
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Dr.Oviparous · #4 (**permalink**) 05-09-2002, 09:45 AM

I belive Ritchie has one right now, you could try to P.M. him, or E-mail him. (look him up in the "members list" on the left near the top of the site) -Juggalo
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impermanentrage · #5 (**permalink**) 05-09-2002, 10:18 AM

Go to this site where Dave and Tracy BArker answer some questions.

]ARP's

Go to mail bag, than type in african rock in the search.

To answer another question. You livew in SA so i am to assume you have access to one of the smaller geographic variants Python sebae nebula if i remember correctly. They are in general hardier than P. sebae sebae but as far a temperment goes? I've been around a couple and although they can be manageable, they are both genetically unpredictable in overall propensity for size as well as temperment. Some ARP's get huge, some stay under 12'. Your (SA and Zim) locality specimens usually stay under 10', which seems manageable, at least with a friend around. #$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^&, its still safer than surfing where your at. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img]

Entropy,
ALex

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bigred · #6 (**permalink**) 05-09-2002, 10:52 AM

thanks for the warm welcome and the help, but isn't it about 0400 in the morning in the US???
I have seen a few of the smaller species, the python sebae natilensis. They are more brightly coloured than the sebae, and apparently don't get over about 11ft.
The problem is availability-the irony being that their are only about three breeders of rocks in SA, and all of them export their hatchlings to the US, yet the rocks are supposed to be indigenous to SA, and I can't get hold of a baby!!!!
Lots of people have answered my call with" I picked one up on my uncle's farm, but I don't know what sex it is as whenever I stick my hand into the box,tank,bath,packet I am keeping it in, it tries to dismember me"
The other problem is that I have my heart set on the big boy, but want to do it properly. I could have got quite a few wild-caughts, but they were all over 4ft in size. One guy, a breeder,is selling his breeding pair for R2500, about 250 dollars. The female is 6 yrs old, and the male is free. When I asked him why, he said the male is 15 yrs old, 20 ft in length, and tried to kill him earlier this year.
Apparently he took it out of its cage to clean, and it bit him on his neck, and wrapped him. If it weren't for the 2 farm workers who were watching, he'd be dead.
Sobering news. I declined the free offer of the 20 ft male.
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impermanentrage · #7 (**permalink**) 05-09-2002, 11:04 AM

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> python sebae natilensis</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll have to remember that next time. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif[/img]

I'll also not buy any P.sebae natilensis imports anytime soon(like that was gonna happen). Wouldn't want to take any off your hands now would i? Maybe we could trade? I'll send you a black ratsnake, you send me a P.S natilensis? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Entropy,
Alex
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Dr.Oviparous · #8 (**permalink**) 05-09-2002, 11:15 AM

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> but isn't it about 0400 in the morning in the US???
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah, but I'm at work doing paperwork, very bored. I don't think I've ever been on RTB earlier than 12midnight, or past 7am! kinda a night time RTB member. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] what time is it there? -Juggalo
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#9 (**permalink**) 05-09-2002, 03:13 PM

They say even with captive bred babies, temperment is a crap shoot. 50% will be more or less tolerable and the others are just like wild caught imports. I think it's just luck whether you get one with a hope for 'tameness' (and I use that word loosely) and even then constant handling EVERY day would be required to keep it manageable...even so, they are still unpredictable.

It is exactly for the above reasons that I will endeavor to keep one in the future, as a test of my skills, WHEN I'm ready for it and have the necessary time to devote to it.
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Flood · #10 (**permalink**) 05-09-2002, 03:33 PM

I have one now. I got it about 6 months ago on a rescue, but I never would have got one on my own. The only reason I got this one is because I didn't want to see it die. I would not have got one otherwise because, they are 'aggro' in a sense, but I wouldn't use that term. I would say stubborn and moody, uncomfortable with people and unpredictable. This particular one seemed pretty tolerant of people when I first got her, but she also was no being fed. Once she gained some energy back, I began to see the rock nature. Now, I used the terms above because she is on occasion rather friendly(once every couple weeks....MAYBE), but, normally she is quick to bite when I am in sight. When I have her out, she may be ok for a few minutes, but typically will end up having a fit trying to get away from me. Now, this is with 6 months of handling, on one hand. On the other hand, she WAS mistreated, so I can't speak for all rocks, and I am sure that even if they are typically like this I am sure that there are some 'rare finds' that may be suitable for keeping for the average herper. Regardless, I myself would not invest time nor money in another unless the same type of situation occured as with this one.

The one good thing I have to say is that she is the BEST eater I have(better than my burm). So, do what you would like, I know that if I was dead set on getting an 'iffy' snake, I probably would not heed what others had to say. We all are a little stubborn and arrogant. Good luck.
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bigred · #11 (**permalink**) 05-10-2002, 07:18 AM

thanks.
Definitely another tick in the "no" column. Hasn't anyone had a relatively benign experience with a rock???? I am loathe to believe that an entire species of snake can all have the temperament of a pit bull at a kitten show.
Don't dissuade me.
please.
Thanks for all the friendly advice.
gary
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#12 (**permalink**) 05-10-2002, 07:27 AM

There was -one- that came into rescue back in december 01. it was a 9'er and was "tame" . The only thing about it was that it would hiss up at ya if you went into it's caging is all. Oncew out it was fine though...
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Space · #13 (**permalink**) 05-10-2002, 11:59 AM

May rocks fall from the sky! You're the first other Capetownian I've heard of who's on the lookout for an Af-rock! I keep Red-tails and Balls, but I've been keen to pick up something more challenging for a while. I don't like Burms much - they're readily available but tend to be very fat and lazy as snakes go. Kind of like the labrador of the snake kingdom. I figure if you're going to get a big dog, get a rottweiler - the same goes for snakes. While I have been asking around for Af-rocks for some time, I do have some reservations.

I get guests who can't go near my redtail - and a lot of people clearly think I'm nuts with two large dogs, four cats, breeding rats, mice and snakes. I wonder if a twenty-foot af-rock might not push the envelope just a little. Balls and redtails are great to handle - I can take them out nightly for some exercise and just keep an eye on the dogs and cats while they're out. My snakes certainly don't view the rottweiler as a potential food-source! Is there much point in having a large snake if you can't take it out regularly and handle it without worrying about losing other pets (or your own life) in the process?

I've looked into retics and anacondas as options - been thinking about a yellow anaconda as a starting point for aggro snake pets. Anyone have any other suggestions for a gal who's looking for a challenge but not a psychosnake? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]
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Dr.Oviparous · #14 (**permalink**) 05-10-2002, 12:14 PM

WELCOME TO RTB, SPACE! is it space like outer space, or space like ? -Juggalo
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bigred · #15 (**permalink**) 05-10-2002, 01:37 PM

Good heavans, someone else in CT has a computer. Your thinking is the same as mine.I have considered a retic or a yellow anaconda, and if my search continues to "rock"-less, I may well go that route.
I have 6 cats, a husky, breeding mice and rats, as well as 6 snakes.
But I still have my heart set on a rock. I agree with you about the burms when they get big-too slow and lazy.
If you get lucky with a contact, please let me know.
going for a surf( in the sea!)
cheers
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Space · #16 (**permalink**) 05-10-2002, 03:10 PM

Do I know you from somewhere? If bigred is a personal description, then you must be the guy I saw drooling over the retic at the rescue centre ...?

We must get together. I'll show you mine if you show me yours [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Enjoy the surf. I just chatted to a fellow who's got contacts in the Eastern Cape (the Wild Coast, for the yanks) and thinks he might be able to get hold of some captive bred subei. For the best prices, we'd need to find buyers for a full set of hatchlings. Any Americans interested? If we get a whole brood of captive-bred, we could probably export cheaply - ten-to-one on the Rand/Dollar exchange means you're unlikely to pay more than $100 excluding shipping (and that includes permits etc). [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
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Space · #17 (**permalink**) 05-10-2002, 03:16 PM

Juggalofweb - thanks for the welcome. I've been checking out this site for months, am glad I finally took the plungs (and some time off work) to sign up. I'd love to see some other Africans getting involved - the herp network out here really is much more extensive than you'd think. Anyone interested, or coming out here for a cheap holiday, can probably organise snakes for a tenth of the price they are out there ...
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KolleenJ · #18 (**permalink**) 05-13-2002, 05:21 PM

Hi, I have a pair of 2001 striped afrocks. The came from the same clutch....and 1 is very handleable, almost loveable(but will still strike at the cage on occaision) and the other wants me dead!!! I try to handle them alot and so far, it hasnt changed them a bit. Both the parents were realitively tame. But ive noticed they are a lot like my retic. Sometimes wanting your head, and sometimes wanting your love. They are always hungry like burms and can never hold still. I cant really tell you much about them, ive only had them for a month, but so far, my experiences with them tell me they will someday be great breeders, but not so good pets. Im sure there are tame ones out there, but all the afrocks ive seen are more un predictable them tame. I would put them in the retic class personally....but maybe because I've been bitten one to many times by the little buggers. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
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Radkon4 · #19 (**permalink**) 05-13-2002, 05:34 PM

I would stay away from rocks I had one for a few months it was a juvi at only 4 feet but mean as #$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^&. Struck the cage every time I passed it. I traded him for a tiger retic and since then got another tiger and a dwarf. Never had a hiss or a bite from any of them. The most alert and dare I say smart snakes I ever owend. Most retics have a bad rep but I've handeld alot and very few where nasty. I'de say go with a nice tiger or a super tiger ,, they get big , tend to be nice and are very alert.

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bigred · #20 (**permalink**) 05-14-2002, 12:25 PM

Thanks Kolleen3 and Radkon4 for the helpful info.
Amazing that the ARP's have such a bad temperament almost across the board. I would love a tiger retic, but unfortunately they are virtually impossible to get hold of in darkest Africa.
A friend of mine,Margo Wilke, who runs a reptile and bird rescue centre has an interesting theory.
She reckons that African animals are somehow "rawer" than elsewhere; look at the cobra's, boomslang, nile crocs. So it only stands to reason that Africa's largest snake would also be somewhat "raw' and temperemental.
Decisions,decisions,decisions .....
By the way, margo's Mothers day presents included 6 Indo scorpions, 2 golden evil ones, a button spider with eggs, and a rare orange Cape Hunting spider!!!
Once again, thanks for the info, however negative. This is clearly a decision I'm going to have to think through quite clearly. A ARP is clearly not like a grumpy burm.
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