BP- question about fasting

Dani · #1 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 04:05 PM

Hi everyone,

I've just registered with this web, just found out about it today.
I've had a Ball Python for over 4 months now, I like to think she's a she although I haven't had her probed yet. She's just about to shed in a couple days probably. She hasn't eaten since the beginning of August (fasting I guess). I'm hoping that she will want to resume eating after shedding. She's 80 cm long (32&quot

. How old do you think she is?
I would like to know how much you feed your BPs (specially if they're around the same length as mine). Not 'power-feeding' though. If she does resume eating now, do you think I should feed her as if she had been eating the whole time (2 mice for example) or maybe a little less just to get her going (1 mouse maybe) and then feed her normally in a week or so.

Thanks for any help you may provide. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Ed_r · #2 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 04:47 PM

Welcome to RTB!!!
First off August does seem a bit early for a BP to go off feed. Doesn't mean they don't try fad diets during the regular season. has there been any change in environment? Temp change, housing changes? Are you feeding live or frozen thawed? She come back onto feed she will like a big meal. With mine its either feast or famine. At her size I would recomend feeding small rats over mice, but some BPs wont take rats(namely mine). Going by her size I would say she is probably a year and a half.

Just wait til Winter comes around she probably wont eat all winter.
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Stormyva · #3 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 04:48 PM

First off Welcome to Redtailboa.net!

Stick with the diameter rule on feeding.... dont try to feed anything that is bigger around than the widest point on the snake.

What are the temps in your enclosure?
Are you using a separate feed box or feeding in the enclosure?

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nomadbean · #4 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 04:53 PM

I would try the one mouse approach and make sure she keeps it down. Then if in a week she is still ok go for a bigger one. If she can handle it rats are actually better for her...like a fuzzy rat instead of a mouse. Also, if it is a fuzzy (or hopper depending on where you go) then try feeding her live to stimulate appetite. A fuzzy can't hurt her it can barely move around. Do NOT try it with an adult mouse or rat plz, just pinkies and fuzzies. Also, I would feed her once a week in a feed box that is darker and leave her alone, mine like privacy to eat... [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] I just toss a towel over the top of the box and look in from time to time.
Then feed her once every week and then every fourth week or so give her 2 smaller than usual mice/rats. Hope this helps, and if she does not eat soon take her to the vet. She is little to be fasting for that long, how is her muscle tone, can you still feel them??

Ok, I was posting at the same time as them.....Welcome to RTB!! and I am glad I do not have a BP with the way they eat or should I say don't eat
Trina
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Dani · #5 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 08:04 PM

Thanks for your replies.
And now to answer your questions. Maybe you can tell me why she hasn't eaten since beginning of August. From the day I got her I kept her in the same cage, in the same room and the same temperatures up to a month ago (but she wasn't feeding by then). Until last month I lived in the south-east of Spain which is a little like Arizona. I have her in an aquarium type cage a little less than 20 gal. (I know it's small and I'm in the process of building her a 200 gal. one). The temperatures without any heating lamps or anything were 30ºC - 31ºC (86-88ºF) during day time and about 26ºC (79ºF) in the night also without any heat. This is the mid-cage temperature (although it doesn't matter since there probably wasn't a heat gradient of any type since it was the temperature of the room I guess). All of the times she did eat (which were a few in the first two months) were live prey (I hadn't seen the terrible pictures that are now in this web, and I was told that that was what she was eating) always under supervision though. She ate lab mice, russian hamsters, hamsters no problem. The last two were pretty large hamsters. After she went off feeding I took her to a vet, got her checked out and deparatized (inside). Everything was good, no mouth rot, no internal parasites that she may have defecated afterwards. The one thing that the vet said was her muscular tone, although she's strong she hasn't got all the muscle tone she should have and once did (I have noticed that she has lost some weight but not much, I don't know how much though). After that visit I tried feeding F/K with no luck, I wiggled it around in front of her and everything, then I left it in there for 2 hours, but gave up that day and had to throw the hamster out.
Now I've moved to Madrid where it's colder and I've bought a heat mat that covers about 1/3 to 1/2 of the surface because otherwise it would be too cold (just around 20ºC, 68ºF). I don't know the temperature of the substrate as I only have one thermometer. But I can tell when I touch it that it's warm. If I had to guess I would say around 28ºC (83ºF) in the hot and 22ºC (72ºF) in the cold side. Humidity is about 70%. I know they're not optimum temps but I am going to have her new enclosure ready quite soon.
She moves quite a lot at night normally which is normal as they are nocturnal but it also seems as if she was looking for prey which is why I don't understand why she won't eat. Hopefully she will after she sheds.
I am feeding in the enclosure, I know I shouldn't but I don't want to handle her after she's done eating and I haven't seen a feeding tray that is small enough to fit in the enclosure with the stuff she's got (it's a little cramped) after she's fed. How do you guys do it? Do you feed her outside? Then, how do you get her to the right temps on the outside? I assume you put the tray inside the cage right?
I hope that it hasn't been too confusing. And thank you for your interest. I have gotten more replies here in less than a day than I have in a Spanish forum in 1 month. I hope to learn a lot here. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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LdyDrgn · #6 (**permalink**) 10-21-2002, 11:21 PM

To use a feed box you pull the snake out of its enclosure and place into the box (tub, whatever), then place prey into the box (or dangle it and make it 'dance'). After the snake eats and settles down out of feed mode, you gently pick it up and place back into its enclosure. Fairly simple, really. If you are unsure about handling the snake after feeding, get a snake hook. Once the metal touches the snake it will realize it is not feeding time anymore and will settle down. The feed boxes people use the most are storage bins with lids. For a BP I wiuld get one that was opaque rather than clear or translucent. They also come in handy when you need to soak the snake or a place to keep it during cage cleaning. Just remember to put some airholes into the sides [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
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Ed_r · #7 (**permalink**) 10-22-2002, 12:04 AM

A couple things catch my eye here. First off as you may ar may not know BPs can be very picky eaters. More than likely the snake you have is a wild caught animal. Captive bred snakes are usually easier feeders.
When you give a BP a hamster its like feeding candy to a child, they love hamsters, and may quickly chose them as prefered prey.
Also if they are in an all glass aquarium, if the snake is kinda nervous it may not want to eat.
Does the snake have any hide spots?
The drop in temps with the climate may take away her apetite for a bit. Mine frequently go off feed, longest is 5 months so far. You never know what will trigger them to feed. I tried rats of all sizes, and color, and believe it or not they can be color picky too.
Mine finally got trigered to eat by a small white live mouse. After that i switched him to Jumbo white mice and he pounds them down like crazy.
It's allot of trial and error unfortunately.
Plus make sure you can achieve the high side temps around 88-90 degrees.
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Dani · #8 (**permalink**) 10-22-2002, 10:31 AM

I'm getting a feeding box as soon as I see an adecuate one. Do they need to have a lid? Or can they just be like a rectangular water bowl with 2-3" walls and no lid?
I don't know if my BP is CB or wild caught but I would suspect it being wild caught, specially with Spain being so close to Africa. Although it should have had parasites right? That's the contradiction I don't understand if it is a wild caught BP [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]
Oh, and about the prey, just to mention on the pickiness of my BP, I really haven't noticed any as she took russian hamsters, regular hamsters and lab mice (which is what she was feeding before I purchased her) gladly. But again she could develop being picky so I will feed her one last hamster that I have and then get her to eat mice.
I've made hide boxes out of cereal boxes twice before and she hasn't shown any interest in them before, that's why I don't have one in there, to give her a little more room. But I have bought one of the half logs for the new terrarium and if it fits I'll put it in this one too to see her reaction when the shipment gets here.
I'd like to read your feedback on what I've thought about for the heating and lighting for the new terrarium, I don't know this web that well yet. I'd think there was a cage forum so I'll post in there, if not, I'll come back here.
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herp_chick · #9 (**permalink**) 10-24-2002, 11:37 PM

Just a few hints.......I have had a few snakes that I had to switch from live to F. Do 2 live feeds, then 2 pre-killed feeds, then go to frozen. I use a pair of long handle clamps, and dangle the rat in front of the snake. If reluctant, you can make a small cut on or above the nose, just enough to let a little blood and juice out. Sometimes the smell will trigger the feeding response. One more thing, make sure the rat is COMPLETELY thawed out, and I put mine in a ziploc baggie in a bowl of HOT water to warm the rat up and make it smell better(to the snake). Hope this helps.
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Voodoo · #10 (**permalink**) 10-25-2002, 04:42 AM

Here's my question: When did you take the hides out of the cage? Does it coincide at all with the going off food? BPs (all mine, anyway), are shy snakes. I'm sure that if they didn't have hides, they'd be *really* stressed out. And I have to feed mine in a carboard box with a lid and airholes poked in it, because they won't eat if there's light. Pepito, my big male, will stop swallowing if I lift the lid of the box. He'll just sit there and stare at me with half a rat hanging from his mouth. Also, my most difficult feeder won't eat until after her photoperiod is over, in complete darkness, with NO disturbances, and only in her home.

What kind of substrate do you use? If you feed in the cage, anything other than paper towels and newspaper can be pretty dangerous. All mine have coconut, except for that home-feeder, who has peper towels. Don't want her swallowing anything and getting all compacted.

And if you have difficulty converting to rats (or mice, whatever), try rubbing a gerbil all over the mouse. Scent it up real good, hehe.
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Dani · #11 (**permalink**) 10-25-2002, 09:54 PM

Thanks for the help. I haven't had hides in the terrarium since the first day that I got her ( over 4 months now), I know what you mean about them needing a hide so I did have a cereal box hide in there for a few days (after I learnt that they needed one or two) but she never used it, as the cage isn't big enough I decided to get a little more room discarding the hide. She has fed a few times (about 8 or 10) that have all been while there was no hide, so no, she didn't go off food because of it. Which is why I don't understand the fasting.
I got home this afternoon to find that she was finishing shedding. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] However, it didn't all come out in one piece (humidity was 75-80%), I checked her eyes and they were fine, what she didn't get was a small part just above the upper jaw (basically from the heat pits to the nostrils) and the tail. I bathed her in warm water (I don't have a water thermometer so I just made sure that it wasn't cold to touch, just warm). While I was doing this she was a bit uneasy, she ducked her head under-water a couple of times, and the tail skin came off withing an hour, I helped her. Quite a few times I heard a noise she made (which she hadn't made before), it was like a wheezing sound like when you have a stuffed nose from a cold. Do you know what I'm talking about? Have any of your snakes done this before? Could it be that the water was too hot/cold? Does she have a cold? I'm a little worried although now she's back in the cage and she isn't doing it anymore. What I haven't gotten off is the skin from the head. I tried using a cue-tip dipped in liver oil applied to the region but being head shy she didn't like it. I was also worried about the oil getting into her nostrils. Is that possible? Is it bad that it happens? Hopefully she will get that area off on her own.

I'm going to try to feed her now. Hopefully it'll work. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Oh yeah, besides the shedded skin was some poop and urates. I wonder where the poop came from. She hadn't pooped since August the 9th (which was 5 days after her last meal). Does that last poop belong to the SECOND to last meal that she had (which was on August 1)? Then that would mean that this poop was from the last meal (August 4). Isn't that a long time for a digestion?

Thanks for listening.

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