For all those ball python breeders out there...

[JennC]

Originally Posted by lethargiic

Jenn.. YOU ARE WHINING
Talk about not being able to take criticism when someone dishes it... You may call it an arguement, others see it as good advise to help ya out, or to warn you the potential dangers of the actions you are taking so you dont HARM OR KILL YOUR BALL PYHONS.. for crying out loud jenn... you get way to hurt over stupid little things, and for someone to say that they'll take their questions elsewhere...that's really low and makes us look like we're not doing our job to help... ball python chick has wayy more knowledge on ball pythons and breeding them than a lot of people do.. it would be wise for you to take her advise...I know that I could trust her advise if i needed it with my ball pythons.. so why are you crying?
On top of that you're making comments about js and his bargin hunting? im sorry sweetie but brett has bout 20 years on you when it comes to snakes.. and to push his advise aside makes you really look stupid.. really the more you talk and CRY about stuff, the less ppl will want to help you and just stomp on you.. You seriously are actling like an immature little girl who thinks she knows what she's doing... guess what jenn.. you dont, you DONT NEED TO COOL BALL PYHONS TO GET THEM TO BREED.. None of my ball pythons are "cooling", then only time temps need to drop is at night time by at least 5-7 degrees, as you should have been doing with all of your snakes to mimic day/night cycles as in their natural habitat.
Just go ahead sell all your snakes... that will only prove that you are being immature about the situation because people griped about you getting a green burm...and even in that thread you were out to make JS look like an idiot. If you DONT want to take our advise to help ya out.. then I feel sorry for you.. You can even go ask other people on other boards.. The Reptile Room, Venom List, SSSnakes, Air Capital Constrictors, Raphie Davis' boards, VPI.. even your precious lil NERD people about breeding balls and they're all gonna tell you the SAME THING or close to it.
That all I have to say to you jenn, and I only hope that you open your eyes and stop taking things so personal.

Whining? Define whining please, in your words. I dont believe i was whining, i believe i was stateing that everytime i ask a simple question people start(censored)at me, saying i should do this, i shouldnt do that, becuase this will die, or that wont do good etc etc and so forth. Dont say thats not true. Sure, tis helpful advice, but when you wont let it go, and keep (censored) to try and get your point across, like JS had done on the green burm thing, instead of letting it go before it turned into a big argument. I DID NOT cool my balls on purpose, the ball python cages are the only ones that wont stay about 85 in the winter, maybe its because right now they are the biggest cages i have. During the winter, the temps in the bp cages drop to about 79-82, instead of getting a higher wattage bulb, i was told that "cooling" helps them come into season, and i figured i would see if i could breed my female this season or next, a good friend of mine who breeds bps said she would be ready to go this season, so i said alright and let the temps stay the way they are. But i dont want those temps to be that way no more, i want to raise them, i want her to start eating again i need to get her fattened a bit more.

And about the whole, me takeing my questions else where, i think its my choice to do so, i dont find it immature at all to ask a bunch of people instead of just one forum full of people who despise me for buying the green burm which dissagreed with THEM, and who are TELLING me what to do with my animals, who are ALL infact in 100% perfect health! I dont mind advice, i like advice, but when people start TELLING me what to do and start (censored) at me for the way i keep my animals, THAT i DO mind. And im sure you ALL can relate to that.

	Ball Python The Ball Python (Python regius), also known as the Royal Python, is a ground dwelling snake native to the savannahs and rain forests in western Africa, predominatly the countries of Ghana, Togo, and Benin.

[mhsrunner]

you guys are fun (smile face)

[ball python chick]

defensive arent you jen?you start a thread for advice and jump people when they give it?lethargic is right on balls not needing to be cooled to breed.mine havent been cooled and are breeding now .i do think its funny though that your not feeding to save money but wont use a house bulb to heat your animals. IF YOUR GOING TO BE DEFENSIVE ABOUT ADVICE GIVEN TO YOU STOP STARTING THREADS AND ASKING FOR IT.PEOPLE ARE NOT ALWAYS GOING TO SAY THE THINGS YOU WANT THEM TO SAY.now that said stop whining and acting like a spoiled rotten brat.

[Intention]

Cooling them to 79-82 is going to induce a respiratory infection. It also sounds as if these snakes are already housed together since you say the snakes have an undertank heater and a bulb(is this plural, or separate?), or are they not?

Regardless, the temps should NEVER go below 80, ever. You ALWAYS give them a hot spot to go to and just decrease the ambient temps. There really isn't even a necessity to decrease temps since light cycles play a main role in inducing breeding. Normal light cycle should be 14hours daylight and 10hours night. When you are wanting to breed, you just reverse them and drop the ambient temps slightly, but you STILL maintain a hot spot of 92-94 during the day.

PLEASE STOP cooling your snakes. It is not benefitting them at all except decreasing their ability to fight off infection. Your female is MUCH too small to even dream of successfully producing a clutch, and if she did, her reserves to produce eggs would be incredibly small, and you would get MAYBE 2-3 eggs. Is it really worth wasting her on breeding when she could be eating and gaining weight for the next season. You could possibly get her up to 1700-2000 grams if you feed her PROPERLY(which isn't happening now).

My girl isn't big enough to breed, but she thinks she is, and has stopped eating for the past couple of weeks. Her temps are still spot on at 84 cool and 95 warm with an 80-83 ambient temp. Humidity is around 65 or so. She just KNOWS it is winter and breeding season, but should snap out of it soon when she realizes a boy isn't going to come calling. I want her eating and gaining weight like she should. She's just too young to breed and I wouldn't want to risk her health only to get 2 eggs or so.

Hun, remember, only breed because you love it and you love the species you are working with. Don't breed for profit or you will find yourself in a hole. Before even thinking of breeding, research, research and research some more, and when you think you're done, research a bunch more. Get everything set up beforehand such as your incubator, vermiculite/perlite mixing ratios, etc. Talk with other breeders and even volunteer to help out during a breeding season if you can. Anything to help you be sure of yourself when you actually get down to business yourself with your own snakes.

Why not go to WalMart and try one of those red flood bulbs. I got an 85 watt one for $6 and it works wonderfully. I have found that crappy pet store "heat" bulbs burn out too fast and cost too much for their own good. A bulb is a bulb regardless of the packaging. Maybe saving money by using "crappy"*rolls eyes* heat bulbs from WalMart will help you pay for your snakes' food. Pet stores(majority) take horrible care of their animals and IMHO should not be given any money to support their businesses, so buying bulbs from a fairly decent place such as WalMart, Home Depot or Lowe's will help in that aspect too(except WalMart's selling of Ol' Roy dog food...eeww).

[snakebitten69]

wow jenn didnt u just tell me to take all the peoples advice on here, that i wouldnt get any better advice? and now your getting upset cause they dont agree with you? if thats not the pot calling the kettle black i dont know what is? dont breed your snake yet, "case closed" (to qoute you), thats all there saying.

[Adrya]

**Claps**

[JuliusSqueezer]

Satanic...I wholeheartedly disagree with your "spot on" temps for ball pythons. I know that it's in line with what a lot of caresheets suggest...but it's wrong. Ball pythons don't dig heat like that. True they come from Africa where it's hot...but what do they do in Africa? Do they crawl around in the hot sun? NO...they lay in underground burrows where it's much cooler and then come out and hunt at night. Or sometimes stay in the burrows for days or even weeks till they are hungry where temps seldom go much more than 80 and at night may go into the 60s. I used to follow the caresheets too and provide a 90 degree hot side. Then I noticed several years ago that none of my ball pythons ever moved from the coolest side of their cages. So I started backing off the temps and now keep them at 84-85 hot side and about 78 on the cool side. They still spend most of their time on the cooler side of the cage. And they eat better! I've been keeping snakes for over 30 years and most of that has been off and on involved with ball pythons. They have never been a main interest but they always seem to end up here and in that 30+ years, I have still never seen with my own eyes a ball python with a respiratory infection. I truely believe they can get them...and I believe others that say they have dealt with it...but I still haven't seen it...and I get a lot of rescues. But anyway, I think the caresheets are off quite a bit and a lot of feeding and stress issues people are having with ball pythons are simply caused by overheating them. That's why I wasn't too harsh on Jenn for her "coolong" lol...she's probably actually just making them more comfortable anyway.

[telefrag]

Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Satanic...I wholeheartedly disagree with your "spot on" temps for ball pythons. I know that it's in line with what a lot of caresheets suggest...but it's wrong. Ball pythons don't dig heat like that. True they come from Africa where it's hot...but what do they do in Africa? Do they crawl around in the hot sun? NO...they lay in underground burrows where it's much cooler and then come out and hunt at night. Or sometimes stay in the burrows for days or even weeks till they are hungry where temps seldom go much more than 80 and at night may go into the 60s. I used to follow the caresheets too and provide a 90 degree hot side. Then I noticed several years ago that none of my ball pythons ever moved from the coolest side of their cages. So I started backing off the temps and now keep them at 84-85 hot side and about 78 on the cool side. They still spend most of their time on the cooler side of the cage. And they eat better! I've been keeping snakes for over 30 years and most of that has been off and on involved with ball pythons. They have never been a main interest but they always seem to end up here and in that 30+ years, I have still never seen with my own eyes a ball python with a respiratory infection. I truely believe they can get them...and I believe others that say they have dealt with it...but I still haven't seen it...and I get a lot of rescues. But anyway, I think the caresheets are off quite a bit and a lot of feeding and stress issues people are having with ball pythons are simply caused by overheating them. That's why I wasn't too harsh on Jenn for her "coolong" lol...she's probably actually just making them more comfortable anyway.

backed.

I dont keep mine that warm either, and in 15 years have never lost one to a respiratory infection.

[Intention]

I keep my girl at 95 on the warm side and 84 on the cool... She spends a good amount of time on both sides and regulates herself very well. Her tub is controlled by a Herpstat II, so I know everything is correct.

I have talked to people who have kept them for over 25 years and they say these temperatures are what they need. I have even conversed with a person who LIVES in Africa and who has measured the temperatures inside termite mounds(where ball pythons usually are), and the temps are in the ranges I specified. Anything under 80 and you are going to give your snakes a respiratory infection. I am a veterinary technician and know what respiratory infections (not to mention all sorts of other diseases snakes get) look like and sound like.

All of the breeders I have talked to(not one stupid caresheet is correct), say these temps are what keep balls happy, breeding and eating. If they weren't happy, would they breed in the breeding season and eat throughout the year? I doubt it.

Just trying to enlighten.. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.