Cause of Death?

[ChicagoCubs22]

Well my friends BP died on sunday...he slept over at my house because we were going to leave my house with my dad at 4 am to go watch eagles feed down the illinois river at starved rock, but we decided not to go due to snow issues. We went back to his house and found his BP upside down, in rigor mortis (firm bodied, stiff) and it looked like it was biting itself. We took it out and it looked like it bit itself, and the saliva seemed to be an adheasive like dried hot glue.

Back last winter he fasted, for like 8 months, and he was a fraction of his best size when i finally got him to feed. My friend was on vacation, it was in the winter, and i threw a rat in there, and he finally had interest. Back 2 years ago he was a full bodied, long BP, and he got me into snakes and reptiles, which lead to a plea to my dad and the eventual BP in june of 2003, who is now starting to eat finickily.

Possible causes of death:

1. Temperatures: he had no real heat source at the time, probably would have gotten warmer if he didnt die considering we were going to put a heat pad in his cage. But the room temp was like 70 at least, so i dont see how temps can be a problem...

2. Dehydration: maybe he didnt soak, i dunno, but my friend said that his BP ate at least a rat a week, and he was trying to powerfeed a little bit to get his fasted weight back. But u figure he had plenty of fluids from the rats...Whom by the way are usually quite wet (f/t)

3. Overall health depletion: He was an old BP, probably 5 years old, maybe older, but he had scars, and a lot of hardships in his day, my friend doesnt exactly take the best care of his reptiles, although i must say he does the best he can.

Well im hoping i can maybe figure this one out in order to improve our knowledge and hope to correct the problem for the future. "Mr.Cuddles" serves me ad a martyr that got me into all of this. The Docile old boy will never be forgotten.

[JuliusSqueezer]

5 years old is not old for something that lives 25+ years.

cause of death could have been from any number of things. Most likely from stuffing him full of food and not having any place to thermoregulate his body.

While ball pythons don't need much heat. They need some. You say the room temp was about 70. That's too low. He can't properly digest his food at that temp.

Powerfeeding kills. Powerfeeding + cool temps = even deader snake.

[farmergirl]

Originally Posted by ChicagoCubs22

Possible causes of death:

1. Temperatures: he had no real heat source at the time, probably would have gotten warmer if he didnt die considering we were going to put a heat pad in his cage. But the room temp was like 70 at least, so i dont see how temps can be a problem...

Snakes have to have a heat source in order to properly digest their food. NEVER powerfeed your snakes and ALWAYS provide a heat source.

Originally Posted by ChicagoCubs22

3. Overall health depletion: He was an old BP, probably 5 years old, maybe older, but he had scars, and a lot of hardships in his day, my friend doesnt exactly take the best care of his reptiles, although i must say he does the best he can.

He was not old. What are these scars and hardships from? And if your friend doesn't exactly take the best care of his reptiles, then he either doesn't need to get any more or he needs to do lots of research and become a better provider. These snakes are dependent upon us for all their needs much like children. If we can't provide their essential needs then that is abuse. And there is always room for improvement, even with very experienced herpers!

Originally Posted by ChicagoCubs22

Well im hoping i can maybe figure this one out in order to improve our knowledge and hope to correct the problem for the future. "Mr.Cuddles" serves me ad a martyr that got me into all of this. The Docile old boy will never be forgotten.

I hope you do choose to improve your knowledge. READ, READ, READ, and then sit down and READ some more. I read for a few hours everyday and not only do I gain knowledge but I also find it quite enjoyable and enlightening. You both should do your reptiles a huge favor and perfect your husbandry skills, they'll love you for it!

[lethargiic]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

And if your friend doesn't exactly take the best care of his reptiles, then he either doesn't need to get any more or he needs to do lots of research and become a better provider. These snakes are dependent upon us for all their needs much like children. If we can't provide their essential needs then that is abuse. And there is always room for improvement, even with very experienced herpers!

AMEN!!! you have no clue how much it upsets me knowing people out there have no knowledge about the animals they are caring for and the harm they are actually causing because of it. (and no im not attacking any one person or persons..this is just a general rant)

I recently picked up a couple of ball pythons and the living conditions they were in were horrid. they were in surprisingly good health too. but they had no heat source... no hides... bricks were put in for shedding... NO WATER BOWL!!!!! AUGH! they were put together... they were in a flimsy home made wire bird cage! and, were being fed 6 mice LIVE ONCE A MONTH in side of their enclosure and lastly they were cold as a cold blooded animal could get.

These are reasons why people should not have snakes in the first place.. this couple just bought them for a gift for their son whos now going to college and can't take care of them there...the sad part of it was i paid $75 for the both of them but i couldn't stand to leave them there in the conditions they were in..both of them were about 5 years old and the male was so small he weight about 500 grams! and the female was weighed at a surprisingly 938 grams.

but anywho..as farmergirl said (and this goes for the new owners and to be new owners) do the research before jumping in feet first. i know it costs money to get these animals and stuff and they area huge investment...but think of the loss of money and emotional well-being because of the ignorance and the selflessness of not taking the proper measurement to ensure these animals are cared for to the fullest extent..these animals are beautiful to display or play with but by no means to they deserve horrible care.

....ok im done ranting, ive been holding back since we brought our new babies home.

[ChicagoCubs22]

yeah...its ok lethargic...i totally know where you guys are coming from, and id like to say that i myself am on that quest to perfect my reptiles enclosures and so on...That friend is currently building me a 6x2x2 foot wooden customized cage. Hopefully we will have it for spring, and hopefully my RTB will thrive and live for years and years in it. Im hoping someday she can breed ...Beautiful pastel i must say, shes so awsome.

My ball python, sad to say, was bigger then my friends when his was fasting. My BP is a male and hes like 3 and half feet long, and he just got done shedding. my red tail is about 3 feet, and she is also doing well on f/t rats. I think for my young female RTB i might start doing a small rat every 10 days or a medium rat every 2 weeks. Hopefully i can get a scale soon and weigh her so i can post the results and share with you all...I have a feeling shes being powerfed a little too much, which is why sometimes i may skip a week. My BP is starting to loose a little weight though, he has denied the past 2 offerings...the first offerings hes ever denied, well excluding shed.

My RTB is such a good feeder...Her skin is naturally opaque and a bit on the pinkish side, so if i cant see her eyes, i cant tell if shes about to shed, but i offered actually i think 2-3 days before she shed and she ate the medium rat.

Every week she is getting a rat that is leaving a little lump in her, it may be just a tad bit bigger then her girth...I'm leaning now to small rats again...THe mediums might be ok maybe in a month or so...But i dont want to powerfeed her.

[lethargiic]

the most important thing is that at least you sound like you know what you're doing and will take the time to make sure ur babies are well cared for, unlike them ignorant morons who end up having a dead snake from improper care or they just turn em loose because they just "get bored with them" or are "just too big"

=)

[telefrag]

A snake that has thrown itself upside down and biting itself in the throws of death , probably did NOT die from a food related or temp related problem.

It was either neurological, parasitic, or some type of environmental factor (airborne toxins, something in the water, direct contact) sounds like its the culprit.

perhaps im not reading into this completely, but when a snake goes through that much activity in the process of passing away, it was likely not a temp/feeding problem.
Or dehydration.


I've seen snakes slowly die of starvation (thankfully none of my own), and they usually die quietly and dont stiffen up so quickly.

Now something with long term degeneration of some type (tissue?) may cause a snake to stiffen up so quickly after dying.
most snakes take a day or so to have rigor mortis set in completely.

Perhaps it was trying to regurge its previous meal, (possibly due to lack of basking spot of appropriate temps) and damaged something internally (wind pipe.. or whatever its called on a snake, I forget)

just a thought.

[ChicagoCubs22]

thats possible...although at the time the room temp was around 70, thats just an estimation, because he has his temps higher then that most of the time.

He did have a scar, it was brown and crusty, may have been scale rot? i dunno.

[lethargiic]

Originally Posted by ChicagoCubs22

He did have a scar, it was brown and crusty, may have been scale rot? i dunno.

that's not scale rot my dear its most likely necrorot..or whatever it is called.