legal endangered trade?

[NicoleRussell]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/10/11/end...ies/index.html

[Ed_r]

Ahhh the government never stops amazing me with their stupidity. Take the money paid by people to kill the animals and keep them in disgusting cages and call themselves a circus. And we will use a small portion of the money to do a slight bit of good in the wild, or moreso in some polaticians pocket.

I guess we had the meaning of conservation all wrong all this time.

[liquid-leaf]

"The Endangered Species Act has largely kept zoos and circuses from buying endangered species to use in shows or for the purpose of caging them. It also protects endangered species from trophy hunters. "

Don't you love how they put the zoo and circus concerns FIRST and then tack on "oh yeah, it protects the animals from trophy hunters too" as an afterthought? As if the ESA was primarily created just to anger circuses and zoos. That's the most convoluted thing I've ever read.

[gruvinbass]

I just wish people wouldn't say trophy hunters like it's a bad word.

[trinitywolf]

I personally think there need to be provisions made. If a species is endangerd, it is possible that the only way to save them is to put some of them in zoos. I don't give a whit about circuses, they should not be able to import endangered species, but zoos have breeding programs and often times exposure at zoos spark life long loves for the animals.

[Ed_r]

I just wish people wouldn't say trophy hunters like it's a bad word

It depends what kind of trophy they are hunting. I'm no hunter nor do i really care for the idea, not really much sport to me. Lets see high powered rifle... Not so intelligent unsuspecting animal Hmm I shoot, animals dies woo hoo. For abundant animals like deer and fowl and other similarly prolific animals. I can accept this.

But to allow big dollar trophy hunters that want to shoot an elephant, or lion, tiger or rhino that is highly endangered. Lets see with all the big money in the world if they allowed this certain species would be shot and killed to extinction within a year.

All the proceeds in the world can't bring back the last rhino.

Zoos SHOULD be able to buy these animals because they are the last sanctuary before extinction. Circuses are wrong on so many levels cuz as long as the animal perfoms they will keep it, when it doesn't follow orders then it most likely gets put down. Who needs a lion, tiger or elephant that wont take orders

[gruvinbass]

When was the last time outside of an urban area where hunting is not allowed have you seen a not so intelligent, unsuspecting deer? At a close enough range to shoot? With a bow? The only difference between me going out and shooting a (insert name of animal here) and running down to the local grocery store and picking up a couple lbs of hamburger is that when I go to the grocery store, I'm paying someone else to kill my dinner for me.

In the areas where hunting is tightly and properly controlled, the animals you named (with the exception of the rhino. To the best of my knowledge, rhinos aren't allowed to be hunted anywhere)
are doing far better than in areas where they are not. Poachers are another question entirely, and I regard poachers as scum, particularly the variety that kills a rhino for some old man in China so he can get his powdered rhino horn.

[Ed_r]

First off, by me the deer will walk right up to you. I walked up on a doe, and got within 10' of her, she didn't care at all. I probably could have pet her had I not been worried she woul freak out at the last second.

I'm Not against hunters. I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to hate someone who does it. AND YES I DO have a problem with strictly TROPHY hunting, even for deer. If you have intentions of consuming the deer, thats one thing, but just to shoot a deer just so you can hang a head on your wall, and waste the rest. To me that is wrong.

Second off. This whole story has NOTHING to do with deer hunting. The whole purpose is that they want to have some sort of permit TO hunt Lions, Tigers Elephants, and Rhinos. These people don't give a rat's behind about the deer.

The whole premise is in their eyes Conservation is strictly raising funds. Sure they will save the land, but all the wealthy people that want to hunt these exotic animals will have shot them all.

[trinitywolf]

As a hunter, I have to agree with Ed. There is simply no reason to kill any animal just to have it stuffed. However, I don't think this is GB's thought either. If I'm following GB is probably the kind of hunter I am. You want meat, you kill it yourself, and you wouldn't mind hanging that trophey buck up in the living room either. Whether you kill a doe or a buck probably doesn't matter in the end, since you'll be chomping away gleefully on the supper you gathered for yourself!

[gruvinbass]

OK, let's see.

When was the last time outside of an urban area where hunting is not allowed have you seen a not so intelligent, unsuspecting deer?

First off, by me the deer will walk right up to you. I walked up on a doe, and got within 10' of her, she didn't care at all. I probably could have pet her had I not been worried she woul freak out at the last second.

Your profile says you're in Chicago?

Second off. This whole story has NOTHING to do with deer hunting. The whole purpose is that they want to have some sort of permit TO hunt Lions, Tigers Elephants, and Rhinos.

There are permits for hunting all of the above. (I was wrong about the rhinos, sort of. White rhinos are allowed to be hunted, black rhinos are not) In African hunting, the meat from an animal is consumed by the local population. They regard it as something similar to hitting the lottery. I have no difficulty with this. I have no difficulty with somebody shooting an animal to hang the head on the wall, as long as SOMEBODY eats the meat. Trinitywolf is right about me personally, though.

The whole premise is in their eyes Conservation is strictly raising funds. Sure they will save the land, but all the wealthy people that want to hunt these exotic animals will have shot them all.

It takes a good deal of wealth to do it, even if you don't allow for the fees and permits that are in place. Additionally, just eyeing it as raising funds is better than them saying "ok, kill 'em all, we don't care". In the state you live in, the system originally was all the money from licenses went to conservation. Since the politicians couldn't stand to keep their grubby hands out of it, they had to create an additional stamp on the small game license, with the fees from that license going strictly to conservation. I do have a problem with that. If they'd kept out of it to start with, there never would have been a need for a "habitat stamp". Part of the point of a permit system is to control it, so the animal in question ISN"T hunted to extinction. Setting daily and possession limits and that sort of thing.

Finally, I'm a little curious (no need to answer if you don't want to) as to why exactly you don't agree with hunting. Seriously. I'm not trying to pee on your wheaties here, just wondering.[/quote]

[Ed_r]

Quote:
First off, by me the deer will walk right up to you. I walked up on a doe, and got within 10' of her, she didn't care at all. I probably could have pet her had I not been worried she woul freak out at the last second.



Your profile says you're in Chicago?

UH huh. Live a mile from Ohare airport. We have a HUGE deer population, and since it all Forest preserve, hunting is not allowed. I believe in NY City theres deer living in Central park. They are quite used to humans here, and don't see us as a threat.

There are permits for hunting all of the above.

This i wasn't aware of. I thought they could only be killed if they were a danger to man and entered a populated area. New one on me if that is just for trophy hunting too, which I see as a shame. Although i DO know they have game reserves, where the animals are privately owned to do with as they please. To me still a shame to have a beautiful animal die for what is a reality, someones selfish need to see a mounted head of the animal on his or her den wall. If someone REALLY has a need to see such an animal every day bacome a member of your zoo, and you can see the live version every day. If you want to call the animal yours, adopt it and help feed and care for the animal.

In African hunting, the meat from an animal is consumed by the local population.

I have no problem with the TRUE tribes hunting these animals. This is their life and they need it to survive. But to have big game hunters donate the meat to the tribes, while this is good, but one kill can last that whole tribe for a month or more. If a few people keep doing this on a weekly basis, the food just goes to waste, they have no freezers. So they really aren't helping anyone.

Finally, I'm a little curious (no need to answer if you don't want to) as to why exactly you don't agree with hunting. Seriously. I'm not trying to pee on your wheaties here, just wondering.

I'm not against ALL hunting, I just don't see it as much of a sport. You hide, you aim, you shoot, animal dies. Unlike fishing, where you can throw bait and lures at the fish all day, and the fish has a choice if it wants to bite or not. Plus you can fish for sport, and let the fish go. Once you kill an animal, theres no turning back. If you got a 10 point buck, and on the way home you se a say 14 point buck, you cant throw your 10 pointer back.
My biggest problem with hunting is hunting for exotic animals They are on the verge of extiction, from hunting, and poaching. CAN'T WE JUST LEAVE THEM ALONE? Man is the most destructive beast on earth, you would think by now we would learn, that geee we killed of so many animals that cant come back.

NOW on the flip side of that I do know that hunting deer IS a necessity. They have even been talking of controlled hunts in my area, to clear out some deer, cuz there are actually to many for them to actually grow properly(not enough food)

Plus I can go to the store and buy beef. I know I've been told deer is really good, and it probably is. Belive me if I were stranded in the middle of nowhere and it was between me going hungry, or letting a deer live. Sorry but Bambie's gonna lose that arguement.

I guess I'm turning into a bit of a tree hugger in my older years.