The Boa Registry

[trinitywolf]

I just found this web page and wanted to get others thoughts on this. The page does not contain a whole lot of information, but I personally have about 100 questions already brewing in my little brain about this. Is it good or bad for herpetoculture?
I'll write my long e-mail to them tom after I have a chance to get some sleep. Until then, I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on it.

The boa registry

Take a look at the site and post your opinion.
[addsig]

[Vegetatoboaotaku]

I guess you didn't follow the progression to that on k-snake... but a number of people decided that the best way to tie the comunity together.... and stop the feuding over "mutts" and bloodlines was to do this register babies... microchip them and what not... so there is absolutely no debate... it's obviously not up and running yet, but i think it's a good idea. To me it might validate the hobby more as people keeping "pets" and less as us keeping a bunch of plucked from the wild imports...
This would be beneficial in dealing with various lawmakers... an organized body (or bodies if other snake communities get together) or a scattered and divided force...
sounds good to me... although there are problems (lots!), huge establishment and trust issues and what not... but if it ever gets off the ground and running... it should be great....
im hoping for the best!
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[addsig]

[Kent K25]

Interesting, the area code on the phone number shown on that site puts em within short range of my house. Wonder who is the brains of it all livin so close?
[addsig]

[schatzie001]

They mention a Stud Book - can I get a copy of that? That could come in useful - or is that for snakes only? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]
[addsig]

[Ed_r]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>The American Boa Registry will strive to record and preserve the pedigrees of registered animals while maintaining the integrity of the association.

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

How can you pedegree something in the wild that naturally crosses bounderies and procreates with different sub-species? No one has any proof of lineage for Boas. With exception of self bred snakes in your collection, but you still have no idea of ansestry.

Just think really how stupid pedegreeing is even with dogs and cats. All breeds of dogs were bred for different charecteristics. Which means a few different species of dog. But yet they offer a pedegree, for basiclly a mutt. but granted it is a specifically bred mutt, but still a mutt. Same with cats.
[addsig]

[eddie]

Not to mention..
The cost will be prohibative for many.
$35 -45 per chip is cheap, but when you have 3 gravid females drop about 25 babies each it will get expensive.
What willl you do then?
Add it into the cost of a juvie, cutting any money made in half immediately, raise the prices to cover it while others aren't raising theirs or skip it all together, which is exactly not what the site is trying to promote?

Then we get into the bootleg chip area, where anyone can pay extra and have a chip installed with another persons info etc...

Example - Jesse Underhill becomes legit after selling what can truly be called (insert big breeders name here) stock due to a chip that does not lie.

I don't like the idea anyways.. start small with animals, get everyone used to having chipped pets and it will be easier to chip and tag us humans.
[addsig]

[trinitywolf]

Some of my concerns have been voiced by the eds...but I have some others. How do they decide that an animal is actually a &quot;pure&quot; BCI and not a cross? On top of deciding, how do they verify that? Do I have to mail my animals to them so they can do scale counts? I realize I'm being outrageous, but seriously. If it's just b/c I say so this is a complete waste of time. If not, I want to know how they verify.
As far as the chips go; what is the purpose of that? The AKC (the only real comparison) doesn't have you chip your dog b/c it is registered.
To be an optimist I think it would be great if this works and breeders could verify their stock, but I don't see how they could make it both feasible and reasonable to register.
[addsig]

	Boa Constrictor Imperator Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor imperator). Most common is the Colombian Boa.

[Vegetatoboaotaku]

I don't think my decription did the thought justice... it was very nutshell... all the arguement made are good ones but.... not all amimals had to be microchipped according to the registry that's just what i thought would be the best option...
I think before anybody passes judgement on the idea it would be good to read the arguements and counterarguments on kignsnake... i will see if i can find the thread(s) assocaiated with it... like i said there are huge issues... and of course honesty is the key to the whole system... but isn't honesty the key to buying morph and what not animals now? what difference is there if it were put in the framework and context of an actual organized system?

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> How can you pedegree something in the wild that naturally crosses bounderies and procreates with different sub-species? No one has any proof of lineage for Boas. With exception of self bred snakes in your collection, but you still have no idea of ansestry. </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
Well why not start now? With the animals we do have and we do know?
Not all registries start from absolute square one of one type... so why should we toss the idea because we know cross breeding to one extent or another has been done...? Things could be classified not on absolute genetic terms more genericlly... a generic Colombian.... scale count matches up appearences seem indicative but is there absolute proof all of it's ancestors hailed from colombia... nope. but still call it a Colombian...
As for the localities and the descrepencies... of course people are going to lie about their snakes or try to pretend a certain animal is something it isn't.... but back to what i said before that happens aleady... liars will just have to weeded out by customers who discover their fraudulent tendencies, and report it...

And honestly I'm speculating on exactly how they're going to run it... because that hasn't been established to my knowledge... so i can't put more than my wild guess...

My brain is fried and I just got off work so i really really don't think im making sense... so that's why im directing you all to the kingsnake... or e-mail Linda Hedgpeth the main organizer of it... she'll be more competent in arguing it's validity than i am... trust me on that one...
*shrugs*
[addsig]

	TOS Term of Service - the rules for participating on redtailboa.net

	Morph A morph is a color or pattern variation that is proven to be genetic. Common morphs include albino, anerythristic, gentically striped, Hypomelanistic, and many others. Morphs also include combinations of simple traits such as "Sunglow" which is Albino and Hypomelanistic. These traits may be recessive traits, co-dominant traits, dominant traits, or created through selective breeding (ie Pastel).

[SteveP]

My family having been in the dog show world in years past is proof enough that regulating &quot;pedigrees&quot; is like holding water in your hand. Despite years of culling out the dishonest breeders, they still exist as do phoney pedigrees. Which is unfortunate because the majority of lagit breeders occasionally get taken too.

It's well known that the majority of our boas are mutts to one degree or another (kinda of like us Americans!). Unless your snake just came off the boat from a specific locale you're just never going to know it's natural history, or you got it from one of the few breeders with known locale animals. I would even be suspect with the varibility inherent in scale counting. It'd be easier to monitor morphs (which are essentially becoming the assorted &quot;breeds&quot; in the boa world, in comparison to dogs and cats).

Those of us with our common boas will just have to be content with the fact that we have some neat animals of unknown lineage. If we breed them we should avoid pawning them off as anything other than what they are...common boas. Those with &quot;true&quot; subspecies are still in the delema of breeding &quot;generic&quot; Surinames, Guyanas, Peruvians, etc. because of the variability from one locale to another within these countries. And since none of the offspring from these animals are ever going to be returned to the wild, to one degree or another, does it really matter? I personally enjoy my snakes to the point where most folks think I'm nuts, and like myself...we are just mutts! I'm more impressed by someone who does outstanding husbandry with a common-as-dirt snake than a poorly kept collection of rare or unusual animals.

Anyway, that's just my $0.02...I'll get off my tangent now!!! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img]
[addsig]

	Morph A morph is a color or pattern variation that is proven to be genetic. Common morphs include albino, anerythristic, gentically striped, Hypomelanistic, and many others. Morphs also include combinations of simple traits such as "Sunglow" which is Albino and Hypomelanistic. These traits may be recessive traits, co-dominant traits, dominant traits, or created through selective breeding (ie Pastel).