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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2003, 07:19 AM
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98391

I don't want my previous comments taken too seriously. I have a brother-in-law on the USS Lincoln, and everyday I hope he can get back to the usual business of being a great uncle to my son and brother to my wife. While he's out launching fighter planes, I sit and joke about his commander. Clearly it's beyond a peaceful resolution. I only hope that it's over quickly.

But you'd think the leader of the nation could at least learn to pronounce "Nuclear" correctly.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2003, 02:55 AM
onefreewoman onefreewoman is offline
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105068

Wonder what everyone thinks about this topic now?
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2003, 06:27 PM
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105901

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/bodycount.htm
Civilian deaths reported:
Minimun: 5567
Maximun: 7240

--------------------

U.S. Hunts Suspected Ambushers in Iraq
Mon Jun 16, 5:05 PM ET


At least 59 Iraqis were detained, most taken away blindfolded and handcuffed, in the sweep in Baghdad and several towns, but the U.S. military announced no major weapons discoveries.

Despite the U.S. campaign to put down resistance across Iraq (news - web sites )'s Sunni heartland where Saddam's support was strongest, attacks by his hard-core backers persisted. Insurgents ambushed two U.S. convoys, wounding 10 Americans, the military said.

The two rocket-propelled grenade attacks reinforced the belief that Saddam loyalists were reorganizing. Residents of homes raided over the past two days warned that the U.S. operations were only fueling hostility and anti-American attacks.

For weeks, American forces have been targets of hit-and-run assaults, most in the central "Sunni belt" north and west of Baghdad. About a dozen U.S. soldiers have been killed by hostile fire since May 1, when President Bush (news - web sites) declared major combat over.

The latest ambushes came Sunday. In the first, the grenade fire set fire to a civilian bus that was passing a military convoy near the town of Mushahidah, about 15 miles north of Baghdad, seriously wounding two soldiers and lightly wounding six others.

The second attack hit a U.S. convoy in Dujayl, a town 35 miles north of Baghdad, lightly wounding two soldiers, said Army spokesman Capt. John Morgan.

Qusai Taha, 33, a grocery store owner from Dujayl, said he heard gunfire while in his store, ran outside and saw that the last vehicle in a 15-vehicle U.S. convoy had been hit. He said he saw two U.S. soldiers being taken out of the truck, apparently wounded.

Later, Taha said, two Iraqis arrived on a motorbike and set the truck ablaze.

The U.S. Central Command blamed the ambushes on hard-core loyalists of the ousted regime who "continue to put innocent civilians at risk."

Last week, the military launched its biggest combat operation since the war, sending thousands of troops through central Iraqi towns. On Sunday, after banning Iraqis from having any weapons heavier than an assault rifle, the military began its latest sweep ? Operation Desert Scorpion ? to root out arms and militants.

The operation spread to Baghdad on Monday: Troops from the Army's 1st Armored Division arrested 44 people, including three suspects in a June 1 grenade attack on U.S. soldiers guarding the Abu Hanifa mosque in Baghdad's Azamiyah neighborhood, where support for Saddam remains high.

That attack injured two U.S. soldiers and sparked a firefight that killed two Iraqis.

Monday morning, an informant rode with the raiders pointing out houses to the troops, who also used surveillance photos taken by special forces to pinpoint targets.

Officers said they found anti-American documents in the homes and seized $14,000 in both Iraqi and U.S. currency, in addition to an AK-47 assault rifle and 9mm pistol.

Thirteen men detained during the day were taken to a palace north of Baghdad that once belonged to Saddam's son Odai. The prisoners knelt or sat on concrete blocks surrounded by concertina wire. All wore white blindfolds and some had duct tape over their mouths.

During a raid Monday night, troops took 31 more Iraqis prisoner outside the Abu Hanifa mosque and at an outdoor cafe, where soldiers lined men who had been playing backgammon and drinking tea up against a fence, search them and loaded them handcuffed onto trucks. Also seized were two truckloads of medical supplies, including IV solutions and glucose bags, that the Americans suspected were looted or were bound for the black market.

"They (anti-U.S. forces) have quite a network still in place here," said Maj. Scott Bisciotti, an operations officer for the 1st Armored Division. "We're trying to take it down one piece at a time."

In the Ramadi area, about 60 miles west of Baghdad, the raid began at 5:15 a.m., when families were still asleep outside their homes to escape the heat indoors.

"These are coalition forces. Please stay in your homes and open your doors. Thank you for your cooperation," blared a warning in Arabic from a loudspeaker as an armored column rolled in.

Within an hour, the troops were gone, taking four brothers from the Saleh home and two brothers from the nearby home of the Mejwal family.

"There are no weapons of mass destruction here," said Omar Saleh, 40, the elder brother of the four detainees. "This is not liberation, nor democracy nor freedom."

Clothes and sheets were scattered on the floor, drawers were opened and their contents were strewn, and a splintered wooden cupboard bore the imprint of a boot. But a framed picture of Saddam was left undisturbed on the wall.

Minutes after the soldiers left, the Saleh house was crowded with neighbors who tried to comfort the weeping mother.

"The resistance is going to increase," said Abdul Qader Fahd, 30, a teacher. "Dealing with civilians like this is terrorism."

In Khaldiyah, 18 miles east of Ramadi, more than 100 military police and infantrymen in 30 Humvees and four Bradley fighting vehicles poured into the small town to raid six homes. Nine people were arrested.

U.S. commanders said the houses were identified by a prisoner who was captured Saturday after he and two other men fired RPGs at an American patrol. Two of the houses belonged to the two men.

When military police entered, they found only relatives and a few hundred rounds of pistol and assault rifle ammunition buried in the backyard of one of them.

Female military police and medics stayed with the women and children as the troops searched the house, finding Iraqi Republican Guard uniforms but no illegal weapons.

Next door, soldiers found a pound of C4 explosives on the roof with a detonator cord. "I don't know about it. If I did know about it, I would have hidden it or thrown it away," said Ahmed Abbas, the house's owner.
___

AP correspondents Chris Tomlinson, Sameer N. Yacoub and Jim Krane contributed to this report.

Link
-------------------------------------------

Interesting pre- 9/11 report
-----------------------------------------------

Neat article by Molly Ivans
----------------------------------------------------

I was just wondering what everyone still thought, now that the "war" is "over."
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2003, 10:10 PM
najaboy najaboy is offline
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105914

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> http://www.iraqbodycount.net/bodycount.htm
Civilian deaths reported:
Minimun: 5567
Maximun: 7240 </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
I've always found it interesting how that site skews their figures to present the US in the worst posible light. Nevermind the fact that they're including deaths caused by Iraqi missiles. Nevermind the fact that they're including cases where civilians were killed while assaulting US troops. Nevermind the fact that the're including deaths outside of Iraq tht did not result from hostilities. I also wonder how many paramilitary fighters they're classifying as &quot;civilians.&quot;

That being said, the number of civilian casualties is low, given that a good deal of this war took place in an urban setting. People die. That's an unavoidable fact of war. Great strides have been made over the years to minimize civilian casualties, but they will always happen.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2003, 11:43 PM
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105924

I'll approve of war when people go back to fighting like they used to - open field, army to army, no civilians involved. Oh yeah.

Do you know the actual number of civilians killed by, er, whatever we're calling US/British/whatever troops? I searched all over the net trying to find an accurate count of civilian deaths, and that was really the only site I found. I knew I'd get &quot;corrected&quot; by the righties if I posted that, but I did anyway. I'm pretty sure that site was just posting the number of civilian deaths that were a result of this war. It didn't seem like it was trying to paint the US in a negative light, since it didn't just say how many were killed, but how they were killed and why. So. I mean, if it was really painting the US so horribly, then the big-boy new channels wouldn't be quoting it, lol.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2003, 12:04 AM
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105925

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> mean, if it was really painting the US so horribly, then the big-boy new channels wouldn't be quoting it, lol.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually, they will tell a non-truth quicker than the real truth.
Example, children accidentally kileed by guns in the US.
They leave out that many are gang related, suicides and minors getting killed by other citezens in attempted roberies etc etc etc...
They also clump anyone under 21 years of age into the 'children group' to juice the numbers quite a bit.

So yes, the major medias do dislike America as it is in full glory and would prefer to have a dictatorship in its place.


As for open field wars, well, never has been very practical or even followed by anyone in a real long time. The enemy hides where it can, in its own cities and around as many civilians as possible in order to have a reason to cry foul later on. That and a great majority of them are cowards.
Do you really believe that Saddam would have sent ANY of his major armies out into the open desert for a confrontation?
He is insane, not stupid!


This is an example of what has been discussed in the past, about political threads.
If one doesn't want their small sheltered, mis-led world to be shaken with facts, then it is not really advisable to post in threads like this nor start them.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2003, 01:11 AM
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105927

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>I'll approve of war when people go back to fighting like they used to - open field, army to army, no civilians involved. Oh yeah. </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, that would indeed be grand. Too bad wars were never fought that way, so it would be quite impossible to &quot;go back to&quot; it.

It is only in recent history that noncombatants have been deemed unacceptable targets. From the dawn of civilization through the first half of the Twentieth Century, civiliian populations wer considered to be desirable targets.

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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2003, 02:09 AM
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105928

Those open field armies would usually end up raping the women &amp; young girls, killing the older women &amp; children and burning down the village. War is brutal and ugly, always has been, always will be.

History has shown us time and again that civilians do die - some intentional, some not

ANYONE REMEMBER 9-11 when several THOUSANDS of our civilians, our citizens died? Hmmm, and that wasn't even a war, but it was for sure intentional [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif[/img]

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