Sorry, but someone needed to say this in the open forum it s - Page 2

BadKarma · #21 (**permalink**) 12-09-2002, 05:26 AM

CB I know and apreciate what your saying and like I said I really don't know what is going on here. I do know that there have been some slanderous things said on here before. Personally I'm tired of it. Fortunately most of those issues have been resolved. However some people do have an honest problem. I'm not saying that is the case here or isn't. I know from my own experience that sometimes you can't help it. It takes a lot of my energy to be able to read or type(No I DON'T want anyone feeling sorry for me). I myself have written things on here the way I see them. If I don't take my time Badkarma would be something like rmakabda. If I get tired it gets worse. A long day at school for someone with a learning disability is tiring. And yes I understand taking the easy street. You know how many kids are imop misdiagnosed with add or adhd just because they couldn't be handled by their parents or teachers. anyway if Heather does have a real problem I wish her the best if it is just lazy then get off your duff. but for the rest of us can't we all just get along!!!!!!!! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img]
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najaboy · #22 (**permalink**) 12-09-2002, 06:41 AM

BadKarma, what you're describing, but can't spell, is dyslexia.

Believe it or not, I'm dyslexic myself. My affliction is very mild. Only rarely do I find myself transposing letters or numbers. I often have to proof my posts, or even edit them due to miscelaneous typos. As of late, it has gotten fairly bad, and I have been considering taking some sort of hiatus. However, I refuse to let something like this dictate my actions.

There's two things you can do about a disorder such as this. We can make every attempt to excel, in spite of it. Or, we can simply be satisfied with mediocrity, and use it as a crutch/excuse.

_________________
What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

herm · #23 (**permalink**) 12-09-2002, 02:21 PM

First off, I have never 'attacked' Heather about her spelling. My post was an attempt to help her. If some of you saw that as an attack so be it, but it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't. As for saying Heather has a 'deficit' I find insulting, that you automatically assume that she has some kind of learning disability is uncalled for. We here in Georgia are in a constant battle to improve our schools, most likely Heather has no 'deficit' at all, just a product of a bad school system. Having said that, even if she does have a learning disability, it can be overcome, just because something is harder for one person to another is NO EXCUSE. I know several people who have dyslexia who have far better language skills then the average person.
As for using a spell checker instead of a dictionary. A dictionary if far superior, if slower. A spell checker would not have a caught 'pin' when she was trying to say 'pen'. This notion that a dictionary is useless if you don't know how to spell the word in the first place makes is absurd. If you are not sure of the spelling of a word, you look it up the way 'you think' it is spelled first. Then when you don't find it, then you try replacing letters. For instance we'll use 'pin', if I had looked it up in the dictionary, I would have seen that it was the wrong word. So what does that leave me? 'pan', 'pen', 'pon', and 'pun'. Even those of you in Rio Linda can see where I am going with this. I have always used the dictionary to find the correct spelling of words.

My post was truthful and not mean spirited in any way, it was an attempt to help and warn Heather. She needs to face up to reality and that reality is she has a language problem. Fortunately she is in a position to fix the problem. I offered her advice. Many doors of opportunity are locked for her because she cannot communicate effectively. Saying that she has a 'deficit' doesn't help. Giving her options does. I refuse to believe that Heather is just some poor girl who was dealt a lousy hand and can't help it. Heller Keller was deaf and blind, yet went on to become a published writer.

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schatzie001 · #24 (**permalink**) 12-09-2002, 02:40 PM

I perceived Herm's original post as being advise for Heather. He is not a malicious person, and neither was his post. I have to agree with him for the most part with what he said there. Just because Heather has spelling problems does not make her a bad person, just a bad speller.

I disagree with Lori's comment though about the pronunciation/verbal context because of the braded (bearded) dragon post from Heather not that long ago. Heather needs to work harder on this. We all like her and none of us want to see Heather fail in life. Too soon her high school days will be over and she will be out in the world where there are malicious people who will take advantage of her and use things against her to hold her back.

I know this to be true because I work with a young lady who is a fine person, but because she has a heavy southern accent in addition to bad spelling, people treat her like she is a second class citizen. She has been turned down for several positions in the company because of this. Candidates less qualified have advanced instead while she is still in the same job. Instead of ridiculing her, I am trying to help her buy loaning books to her and working with her to overcome the spelling thing and also by proofreading items she sends to her boss. She knows she needs help and is not offended by my concern and by my attempts to help her. I am not doing anything about the accent because it is natural but I must also tell you that folks here perceive her as ignorant because of this, which is VERY wrong. I dealt with the same kind of discrimination myself when I moved to Michigan - ignorant people will think and say ignorant things and that fact is universal.

If I were to continuously post incorrect information on this site pertaining to reptiles, wouldn't I be corrected? We are all here to learn from one another. I don't take offense if I am in the wrong and someone lets me know. It is the way a message is conveyed to me that determines whether or not I get offended.

I don't want to live in a perfect world, and I am not looking for perfection around me from the inhabitants of this world. Our little quirks make it interesting. I know that I still have lots of room to grow and learn. That is why I am so fond of the phrase --I am only an egg (thank you Robert Heinlein!). That pretty much sums it all up.

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I am the Wellspring from which you flow....Thulsa Doom

faze · #25 (**permalink**) 12-09-2002, 03:34 PM

on the topic of adhd.... the drugs for it are a cop out adhd is something that you need to handle on your own i know i was one of those children that where sedated and drooled over himself in class and got passed from one grade to the next and i didnt learn anything prolly around the 4th grade i stopped taking them and finally started to actually learn something
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slaponte · #26 (**permalink**) 12-09-2002, 05:40 PM

My .02...

All dificulties (sp?), learning disabilities, etc, etc aside, we (here at RTB) have chosen to join a group/society that mainly communicates via the writen form in the forums. So, to be part of this society there MUST be some semblance of proper grammar and etiquette in our writings/posts.

Young people have to learn this : individualism does NOT mean you throw all the rules out. Rules exists in society so that we can all get along. You can still be an individual and follow rules, as in grammar, the law, etc.

My excuse : I am from Puerto Rico and english is a second language to me. Sorry, but "this" and "these" and things like that still give me trouble after all these years...

Somebody said we are all professionals. No we are not. There are many young people, students of all ages that come by RTB. But what we do have in common if we have chosen to be here and participate, and we do that under the guide and rules of this "society", and we are driven by writen language, English in this case.

I mean, I could just come here and start posting in Spanish, but it wouldn't help me much, now would it... [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
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jpaulson · #27 (**permalink**) 12-09-2002, 11:47 PM

Actually, I said that "we are a group of professionals here, or at least should act that way" I said that in response to Lori's original post. I also stated that we are a community based on words...we cannot "pick up the phone on a whim" and call another member.

Summary.......

We should act like professionals, and since we are a community of words, proper grammar and spelling can either give or negate a persons' wisdom. Facts.
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MED04 · #28 (**permalink**) 12-10-2002, 03:29 AM

Ok...I have been reading this post as well as the post on education, and after a couple of days of simply reading I thought I would give my two cents. First of all, I am not going to comment on the education portion of the posts (at this time at least) because there is a lot that can be said about the products of education in today's society. What I will say is that I would have to disagree with jpaulson's "we are a group of professionals...". We all aren't professional herpetologists. The majority of us (including me) are just average people who enjoy keeping reptiles or average people looking for advice about reptiles we would like to acquire. I think it would be fair to say that we all stumbled upon this website because of one of those two reasons. Of course the levels of knowledge are going to vary, but that is to be expected. I do agree with jpaulson when he said that "...we are a community of words...". That is true, we are a community of words. Even a typo could make a huge difference, and I understand that. However, what we all are (at least the majority of us), are adults. Because we are adults we need to act as such. Poking and prodding at someone because of spelling errors is ridiculous. I could understand if clarification of a certain word was needed for proper advice, but giving someone a vocabulary quiz???? It's not necessary. Ok, I'm finished....just my .02 [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
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Stormyva · #29 (**permalink**) 12-10-2002, 02:13 PM

I have read this post several times and I have been fighting the urge to post. I can not any longer.
I come to this site for the education, the entertainment, and the people. I have liked everyone that I have chatted with in the chat room and seen post here on the site. Even some of those people that like to start the debates all the time. That is one of the things that keeps this site so entertaining and keeps me coming back. What people do need to remember is that, as someone posted earlier, We are a community of words, we are all known by the words we type here on this site. Everyone that comes here and joins this site is reading posts like this. I have seen numerous new "members" join here and post a "Hello I'm New" post, get welcomed in to RTB, make a few posts and then never come back. But see them as regulars on a few of the other sites with frequent posts. Some of you out there may say "Well they were idiots and we did not want them here anyways" or "They belong at that site" . I tend to disagree with that attitude, this is a community of words, and everyones words should be welcomed! We may have to tolerate some typographical and grammatical errors on occasion, whether they are due to laziness or a learning disability. I can understand the reason behind recommending to Heather to correct her spelling and grammar. I also understand peoples frustration with trying to read some of her posts, but the fact of the matter is, it is not our place to worry about peoples spelling and grammar, that is best left for a prospective employer, educator, or even parents. The fact is she came here to this site for the same reason that everyone reading this long winded post did, they want to learn more about reptiles, help others learn more, or just enjoy themselves! I for one use spell checkers and extensive proof reading when I do things in the business world, but when I am doing things for entertainment I "let my hair down" and dont worry as much about my errors. The truly nice thing about a site like this is: If you dont like it or if the post is annoying to you, simply, ignore it! (That does not mean that everyone can ignore all of my future posts though [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img])
All of us have our little quirks and most of us here seem to deal with them, my typing and grammar can be horrendous at times too. I have seen occasions when Lori has been given a hard time about her, BTW's, but it is all done in jest! If we keep our comments to just that, fun, more people will continue to come here and stay. This site will thrive! Let's all make an effort to encourage posts and questions, whether they have good or bad spelling and grammar, and share our knowledge with these people, not our criticism. ( Unless of course they are doing something that could hurt their reptiles. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]) That way we can promote a safe and healthy environment for the one thing that we ALL do have in common, and that is our reptiles, as well as promote this site as a educational and friendly environment for all of us reptile owners. We should welcome everyone to "Our Community" and direct our negative energies and criticism at those people that are damaging to our hobby!

Ok, I may have gone a little off topic but I feel better, I vented [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Go ahead make fun of the my speeling aand grammer and my sentince struktre [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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eddie · #30 (**permalink**) 12-10-2002, 06:45 PM

The spelling I can deal with even though it leaves me cleaning all the hair I ripped out of my head from the roller brush of the vacuum cleaner.... Not much left ta rip out now at all atm even btw also even here is all... [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] don't forget the many empty Goody's packets too...

The biggest bug I have on this is when there is a post going smoothly and right in the middle of it, there is an attempt to make it the heather show when there is a way out there story about something that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the post at hand.. Good thing is, most of us ignore the stories and continue posting in the theme of the thread at hand. TG!!

Off topic posting does happen here and generally it is easy to follow the pace and such, since things like this can have us adjust our thoughts, but with so many topic changes from one person and usually BEFORE the topic has been resolved, such as a help question, then it gets really annoying to continually ignore.

Did I mention that I had to get a new KB since I wore the delete button off the old one?
I eventually gave up on doing away with some of the more wacky ones in an attempt to keep her from looking too bad, but as in life, it happens....
I gave up and then I started to rib her on it in an attempt to get her to do her own thinking on stuff, but it just didn't work too well for her..

Lori, i can see what you are saying on the handicap issue, but I have seen some posts from her that were near perfect so it seems that the spelling/grammar issue can be done on her end when she feels like doing it. i also remember one of her early posts that she stated to ignore the spelling since she types the way she feels and spelled like she felt as well.

if wee wur lla to due thta thin there wood bea a lots of peelpes gtteing hade aix from reedign thsi stufft
A lot of her errors I have seen are not transposing the letters in a word NOR the simple phonics spelling either. For example ' brardie' which does not even match up phonetically or letter wise. 'bolb ' doesn't either. (bulb for those in Rio Linda)
When she first came here I looked at her as if she may have a dyslexia problem, but the more she posted I realized that it was either laziness or lack of caring to get things spelled right.
Dyslexia doesn't have much to do with grammar and punctuation.
Dyslexic individuals are sharp as a whip in most cases and the ones I have worked with in the past, never had any problems with their grammar nor their punctuation and sentence structure.
A few years ago, I was in a college class, English, and the fellow beside me had dyslexia and was passed along the way to get him out of the teachers hair and was NEVER diagnosed with it.
After grading a few of his tests, I sat down with the teacher and got her to look at his work. Everything was great except he had a major transposing problem, all the words had the right letters, just bass ackwards.
Needless to say, he got help with the problem, and went on to pass the course with flying colors after the teacher decided to give all his tests orally instead of written.
Point is, even with his heavy dyslexia problem, his grammar, punctuation and sentence structure were immaculate, just his words were mixed up letter order wise.

As for the schooling, it doesn't just end at 3 pm, it is continual, so if the parents are not doing what is needed or just don't care, then not much will be done for her ways.
Or it could be just a thing she does to get noteriaty while here with us.
Who knows?
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Flood · #31 (**permalink**) 12-10-2002, 07:21 PM

I choose not to involve myself in this. I know none of you well enough to feel that I have a right to criticize (with the intention to help or not) in a matter such as this. Even bringing up such a thing would be emotionally damaging if it were me that was the tpic of debate. I think that the only people that can point there little hypothetical fingers and be justified in doing so are close friends and family. Making this public seems to me not only an attack on spellign and grammer, but on the dignity of a person. I mean no offense to any of you, but these are my thoughts.
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bensnacks · #32 (**permalink**) 12-11-2002, 10:37 AM

Flood, although I did bring up Heather's name previously ,
I think this topic is more about the site, about 'us' and how
we want to present ourselves as a group.
Do we want to be percieved as a group who welcomes and tolerates
those with a common interest that want to join us? or as a bunch of people
who will badger and taunt someone for their failings to the point they leave,
obviously upset?.
Maybe this is an issue which the powers that be (owner/admin) need to
have the last say on & make a decision as to whether this behavior (by us)
will be tolerated or not.???

_________________
L4L, "Peeple of zee wurl relax.!" -sailor the parrot

#33 (**permalink**) 12-11-2002, 02:40 PM

Excellent idea, just what we need - more censorship, including the place I go to get away from that crap.

Learn to spell, it's a basic skill in life. Nobody else gets ripped b/c nobody else makes as many mistakes as often.

Political correctness makes me want to throw up.
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bensnacks · #34 (**permalink**) 12-11-2002, 03:15 PM

So ...maybe we should put up a sign for all potential newbies
saying "If you can't spell, don't bother knocking"??
Is that what you would want??
Unless it's the scenario outlined earlier, attention seeking or whatever,
it's not going to be fixed overnight (especially by us).
So whats the solution J. ?Ban the bad spellers?

I'm just saying the insults don't look good for us.

Having an owner/admin decision would just put this issue to bed.
If it came to that, whatever decision was made it really
wouldn't bother me.

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L4L, "Peeple of zee wurl relax.!" -sailor the parrot

Ed_r · #35 (**permalink**) 12-11-2002, 03:56 PM

I agree ben. I like seeing new people show up and thats Natas' purpose of having this site is to have it grow with more and more members. Your going to get some very experienced herpers coming in here to share a wealth of knowledge, and your going to get a ton of newbies, and the occasional person that in our oppinion can't take care of a pet rock.
This post and some of the rants that have followed it give this site a much bigger black eye, that the casual bad spelling and bad grammar.
At last I checked these are OPEN forums. Anyone that is a member can post a topic or give their oppinion.
If you dont like reading the errors from a certain person, don't read the post. It's not that hard. When you open the post up and see who it's from then click off. Problem solved.

Posts and rants like this will drive future members away. Nothing against you Lori, I agree something needed to be said about it, but the arguments that followed are kind of unnecessary. Can't we ALL get along,. You know the "Love Thy Neighbor" kind of mentality.

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#36 (**permalink**) 12-11-2002, 04:06 PM

If you come to hockey try outs and can't skate, be prepared for some ribbing

If you come to a place that solely involves written word and you can't spell at all, again, be prepared for more ribbing...

I don't care about a few typos, but the same crap over and over...use a spellchecker.

If you don't care enough to work on your own problem, fine. Just don't burden the rest of us with unintelligible groupings of letters...

I'm not here to win friends or be politically correct or be very careful not to hurt anyone's feelings. It's like Sergio said, he could write the most informative post in the world in Spanish, but if no one can understand it, what's the point?

We were kind and made many, many suggestions on measures to correct the situation (it was obvious from day 1) in the beginning. After months of an approach that wasn't working, some people just started saying what they really felt. If I'm not sharing my house and the rest of my life with you, I will choose to speak the truth and possibly hurt your feelings rather than lie and not. That's me, and that won't change. Period. Even if an owner/admin tells me not to. When it gets to that point, I'll leave. It's just a messageboard, not my reality.
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Constrictor_BO · #37 (**permalink**) 12-13-2002, 11:06 AM

Ok guys and gals. I have just surfed through the site and saw three recent post made by a person that has been mentioned on several occassions in this thread, you know, the one that the majority of us have been getting onto about spelling. Out of the three post I read, I only saw ONE (1) mispelled word. Now I dont like to give someone a hard time about something like this either, but when it becomes apearent the these mispelled words are due to negligence and not "problems" thats when I cant hold back. Now to me this thread seems to have worked somewhat. For how long has yet to be seen but out of these three post and only one mispelled word.... I would say it was pure negligence on all the other posts that got this thread started. And on top of that, if you look you might just see that most of these words that were spelled correctly in these recent posts were actually mispelled in the other posts.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> Making this public seems to me not only an attack on spellign and grammer, but on the dignity of a person.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont feel this was an attack on spelling and grammer in general. I do see where this is an attack at making someone aware of what they are doing and how they look doing it. More than that is was an attack on someones spelling and grammer where they actually knew they were doing it wrong on purpose just because they did not care. Every one of us are guilty of mispelling words, but when those words are spelled incorrectly only because thats the way you want to do it... thats totally uncalled for. If you noticed your kid doing things like that, are you gonna get on to them for it or just let it go?
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morti · #38 (**permalink**) 12-13-2002, 02:08 PM

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> You know the "Love Thy Neighbor" kind of mentality. </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

Look ya'll! I'm not the only Hippy! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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Flood · #39 (**permalink**) 12-13-2002, 02:32 PM

This is "Redtailboa.net" not future writers of america. You all have to understand, you can make suggestions and politely bring things up but ultimately, it is not YOUR decision(as in this case). I think that probably most people even after being told about something they are doing wrong, assuming that they don't have a problem with it themselves, would not go to great lengths to try and fix it. I KNOW I'm not here to make some people I've never met happy. Point one. And two; a fat man-he knows he's fat, everyone else does, but make fat jokes and he'll probably get mad and leave.
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#40 (**permalink**) 12-14-2002, 12:41 AM

OH NOOOOOO .. Not the fat guy thing again ! ISn't there another thread here already for that one ? lol
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