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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2002, 10:10 AM
Voodoo Voodoo is offline
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83266

No Child Unrecruited
(http://www.motherjones.com/news/outf...ma_153_01.html)

Should the military be given the names of every high school student in
America?

By David Goodman


Sharon Shea-Keneally, principal of Mount Anthony Union High School in
Bennington, Vermont, was shocked when she received a letter in May from
military recruiters demanding a list of all her students, including names,
addresses, and phone numbers. The school invites recruiters to participate
in career days and job fairs, but like most school districts, it keeps
student information strictly confidential. "We don't give out a list of
names of our kids to anybody," says Shea-Keneally, "not to colleges,
churches, employers -- nobody."

But when Shea-Keneally insisted on an explanation, she was in for an even
bigger surprise: The recruiters cited the No Child Left Behind Act,
President Bush's sweeping new education law passed earlier this year. There,
buried deep within the law's 670 pages, is a provision requiring public
secondary schools to provide military recruiters not only with access to
facilities, but also with contact information for every student -- or face a
cutoff of all federal aid.

"I was very surprised the requirement was attached to an education law,"
says Shea-Keneally. "I did not see the link."

The military complained this year that up to 15 percent of the nation's high
schools are "problem schools" for recruiters. In 1999, the Pentagon says,
recruiters were denied access to 19,228 schools. Rep. David Vitter, a
Republican from Louisiana who sponsored the new recruitment requirement,
says such schools "demonstrated an anti-military attitude that I thought was
offensive."

To many educators, however, requiring the release of personal information
intrudes on the rights of students. "We feel it is a clear departure from
the letter and the spirit of the current student privacy laws," says Bruce
Hunter, chief lobbyist for the American Association of School
Administrators. Until now, schools could share student information only with
other educational institutions. "Now other people will want our lists," says
Hunter. "It's a slippery slope. I don't want student directories sent to
Verizon either, just because they claim that all kids need a cell phone to
be safe."

The new law does give students the right to withhold their records. But
school officials are given wide leeway in how to implement the law, and some
are simply handing over student directories to recruiters without informing
anyone -- leaving students without any say in the matter.

"I think the privacy implications of this law are profound," says Jill
Wynns, president of the San Francisco Board of Education. "For the federal
government to ignore or discount the concerns of the privacy rights of
millions of high school students is not a good thing, and it's something we
should be concerned about."

Educators point out that the armed services have exceeded their recruitment
goals for the past two years in a row, even without access to every school.
The new law, they say, undercuts the authority of some local school
districts, including San Francisco and Portland, Oregon, that have barred
recruiters from schools on the grounds that the military discriminates
against gays and lesbians. Officials in both cities now say they will grant
recruiters access to their schools and to student information -- but they
also plan to inform students of their right to withhold their records.

Some students are already choosing that option. According to Principal
Shea-Keneally, 200 students at her school -- one-sixth of the student body
-- have asked that their records be withheld.

Recruiters are up-front about their plans to use school lists to
aggressively pursue students through mailings, phone calls, and personal
visits -- even if parents object. "The only thing that will get us to stop
contacting the family is if they call their congressman," says Major
Johannes Paraan, head U.S. Army recruiter for Vermont and northeastern New
York. "Or maybe if the kid died, we'll take them off our list."

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2002, 10:19 AM
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bensnacks bensnacks is offline
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83269

Why not just go the extra step and tatoo barcodes or even just
i.d. numbers on their forearms to keep track of them all!! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]

Can anyone say ,'brownshirts'??!!??
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Old 11-12-2002, 11:02 AM
XzyluM XzyluM is offline
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83278

I think students should have their own say over giving out personal information to military recruiters. Not every student wants to pursue a career in the military. I don't think students would enjoy receiving phone calls and personal visits from recruiters against their objections.
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Old 11-12-2002, 01:53 PM
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eddie eddie is offline
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83300

Giving out info like this sure beats the 'DRAFT'

Besides, the military is doing what they need to get the best and the brightest, the same as any college will do.

I for one am getting tired of people acting as if the military is nothing but evil.

Sorry all but if it wasn't for past members of this nations military, you probably would not be legal to voice your opinions as you have done here.
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Old 11-12-2002, 02:36 PM
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schatzie001 schatzie001 is offline
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83304

I really don't see a problem with any of this....the only problem I have is the contradictions noted below.


>>"We don't give out a list of
>>names of our kids to anybody," says Shea-Keneally, "not to colleges,
>>churches, employers -- nobody."
Then this line comes in.....
>>Until now, schools could share student information only with
>>other educational institutions. >>

If there is a problem with this law, here it lies.....
>>The new law does give students the right to withhold their records. But
>>school officials are given wide leeway in how to implement the law, and some
>>are simply handing over student directories to recruiters without informing
>>anyone -- leaving students without any say in the matter.

I think you need to be more concerned about the school's attitude and conduct regarding this new law instead of the United States Government.
If the people who have the students' records are turning them over without informing the kids, or not allowing the kids a say so in the matter---ie: not giving them the option to keep their information confidential, then anyone concerned over this new law needs to direct their energies to the schools.
If the schools do this for one institution, it is very likely they will do it for others, and not all parties that receive the records will respect the confidentiality of that information.

>>"I think the privacy implications of this law are profound," says Jill
>>Wynns, president of the San Francisco Board of Education. "For the federal
>>government to ignore or discount the concerns of the privacy rights of
>>millions of high school students is not a good thing, and it's something we
>>should be concerned about."
OK, I don't understand this person's remarks...they are trying to make it sound like the Government is coming in and forcibly taking these records. Once again, if the schools do not do their part to protect student records, why does this person seek to blame some other party??? Because it is convenient, and America bashing seems to be the new trend.


>>Officials in both cities now say they will grant
>>recruiters access to their schools and to student information ---- but they also plan to inform students of their right to withhold their records. >>
I certainly hope so, because if they do not, don't place blame on the Government, place blame where it belongs...at the level of the schools.
>>
This post coming on the heels of Veterans Day puts a burr in my butt.

The Constitution gives you the right to bash this Country - the same Country that gave you these freedoms. Spend some time in another country (and I don't mean a week vacation)--- one that doesn't allow its citizens the many liberties we have here. I have, and I know that it helped me see our Nation in a new light and gave me a greater appreciation of many things I took for granted.
I don't agree with everything the United States does, but I firmly believe in my Nation and love it dearly.
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Old 11-12-2002, 02:47 PM
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eddie eddie is offline
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83306

Once again the liberal view is so contradictory that it can only be taken with a grain of salt, a bowl of sugar and several shots of mescal.......

I like my new signature, it is the USSIowa BB61 firing off the guns from turret one while wearing a flag!
Imagine that, all the things that mean freedom in one picture.

Military, guns and the USA.
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Old 11-12-2002, 03:06 PM
herm herm is offline
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83314

It's funny nobody is Loriing about telemarketer's who buy the same information, and have been doing it for years. Where's the outrage in that?

Nobody is forcing anyone to give up any information. You can just say no thank you please go away.

I think it's funny too that this post showed up the day after veteran's day too. I noticed only one democrat who responded to the "Sincerest Regards on Veteran's Day" post. It's funny that when it comes to bashing America liberals can't shut up, but when it comes to acknowledging where their freedoms come from they are strangely quiet.
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Old 11-12-2002, 04:02 PM
najaboy najaboy is offline
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83318

I said it before, and I'll say it again... Don't believe everything you read, especially when it comes to blatent propoganda.

This article is a perfect example of gross misinformation and half-truths passed off as "news". I'll elaborate on it more when I get home from work.

_________________
What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?
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Old 11-12-2002, 05:01 PM
Seany Seany is offline
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83324

If you ask me, there should still be a draft in the first place. A mandatory minimum 2 year service after high school. Like in many other countries in the world (and I'm not even talking 3-4 years like in Israel and other Eauropian countries.
It could only do good... I think it would do this younger generation wonders, get them away from Sony Playstation2 and Xbox and show them that there's a world out there.
Only in this country can you salute a war/army verteran with one hand and call the army Evil the next day. unbelievable.
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Old 11-12-2002, 06:46 PM
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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> I noticed only one democrat who responded to the &quot;Sincerest Regards on Veteran's Day&quot; post. It's funny that when it comes to bashing America liberals can't shut up, but when it comes to acknowledging where their freedoms come from they are strangely quiet. </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

Heh heh, was that me? Am I now known as the democrat? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

I have a very good appreciation and understanding of the military. I'm actually the first male from my family NOT to serve. My grandfather did, so did my father.

I cannot say much else for fear of it being misinterpreted, but I was rather gifted academically and had universities calling me before I graduated, so I went that route. I have no knowledge of, to say that private universities are any better or worse than the military avenue of education.

I personally do NOT agree with mandatory military service, at least not when we're not at war. And I mean troops and armor on the ground, CV task forces off shore, and planes overhead war, not less obvious war on terrorism war.

I agree there are a lot of young men and women that would be better off going a few years in the military than smoking dope and drinking themselves silly at university (at least until mid terms come back [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] ), but the military wouldn't have done me much good. I don't take to the &quot;because I said so&quot; reasoning very well. That is the one thing I could never overcome in my personality to make me a good sailor. Yeah, sailor, my eyesight sucks too bad for the airforce and I've always loved ships.

Anyway, the schools need to get with the program and inform the students what action they're taking wrt to giving out information and allow the students to have the ramifications of their info being given out explained to them (or their parents). Other than that, there's not much wrong with that policy. Now the military can request the info, but students ARE NOT REQUIRED to give it.

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Old 11-12-2002, 07:00 PM
Seany Seany is offline
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83330

Two things.
First, I'm a democrat and I for one had a lot to say in both posts... Although I must admit I'm starting to question myself as to why I'm a democrat...
Second, you'll never know how much the army does for you until you do it. I didn't want to do it and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I hear where you're coming from J, but do NOT agree at all.
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Old 11-12-2002, 10:49 PM
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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>you'll never know how much the army does for you until you do it. I didn't want to do it and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I hear where you're coming from J, but do NOT agree at all</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

I dunno how that can be proved or disproved, since it is impossible to know what your life would be like with and without the army. Can't do both at the same time.

That's cool, everyone is allowed their opinion and no one has to agree with anyone else. That's what makes it nice here, you can say what you feel without worring about people busting on you for your beliefs.
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Old 11-12-2002, 11:23 PM
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nomadbean nomadbean is offline
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83364

Ok, I thought before I posted here because it is such a touchy subject for me. In my high school, which was on a base we were automatically recruited. Now, I knew that I would never serve in the military since like age 12 or so, when Desert Storm went on and I saw all the chaos that went on in my town. Families couldn't reach loved ones, and we didn't know where they were, etc. I was called almost everyday for 3 months by recruiters after the mandatory ASVAB because I did so well on it. I did not mind them trying to recruit me, but I do think that they should be restricted to the same levels as telemarketers.....if someone says no thank you plz don't call again, then they can't. I had to go to the recruiter's office one Saturday, show them my broken knee and a doctor's note that said was permanently disqualified from strenuous excercise. It is a great choice for many people, and not one all of us choose, but it is not mandatory to join, just hear what they have to say. It may be the best thing for you, especially if you are not ready for college or qualified for a job yet. They pay for college and teach you a skill, WHILE you earn a paycheck. I think once again the people in the media got it overexagerated things, high school kids do not mind talking on the phone, let the recruiters call them.
Trina
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