Which states have protection laws for non-native reptile spe

[sophia]

Folks,
Can anyone here tell me which states sponsor laws for the protection of non-native reptiles sold in the pet trade industry? The reason I ask, is because North Carolina so far only protects dogs, cats, and exotic animals,( birds, reptiles, monkeys and such 'not included' under the definition of 'exotic'! )

I'm angry as H**l right now because the pet store I turned in back in June has not once been fined for their mistreatmet, (read abuse,) of animals within their store, and the only animals seized from them so far have been kittens and dogs! When we went in back in June there was a ball python in an enclosure with four others who was suffering horribly with a respiratory infection, it was VERY obvious from the way he was holding his head up mouth agape, clicking noises and watery mucous bubbling up around his nose and mouth, that this was what he had. There was no heat in the cage, no light, the water was filthy, it looked like dirty milk and there were sheds and fecal matter in the cage and this was just the tip of the iceberg. There were several cases of cross species mixing in enclosures, snakes with no heat, filthy substrate, milky water, obviously sick, and this one yellowhead retic was in horrid conditions in an enclosure so small that he had to coil on top of himself because he couldn't coil normally and there was no possible way he could have stretched out, even if he'd done so by stretching his body around the perimeter of the cage, he'd have still had about 1/3 of his mass overlapping. There were flies all in his cage and evidence of sheds (yes plural) fecal matter around the dish and behind the snake and here and there! It was awful, no heat, no light, no where to soak, etc ad nauseum. I wrote all this up and filed a formal complaint with THREE agencies giving my full name, address, phone number etc... I never heard anything back from either one.

The three agencies were the local Animal Control, local office of the ASPCA and the national offices of the ASPCA. All that was done when the local animal control visited, was 14 kittens siezed, all sick, all with green matter around their eyes, all wheezing and sneezing etc, and one on it's last legs laying in it's own feces, but no fine, nothing!!! Not even a good slap on the wrist for that matter. But nothing, I repeat, nothing was done in regard to the horrid and deplorable conditions that the reptiles and birds were kept in and I'm telling you, you can smell the stench of this shop from outside the door!

So now that I've ranted, can anyone cite any legislation as per other states to protect animals sold in the pet trade other than cats and dogs and of course protected native species??? I would like to try pushing for legislation in our state, I can't take this kind of negligence laying down, I used to work in the pet trade for a wonderful lady who kept a shop so clean that you NEVER smelled anything even remotely nasty, there's a way to do things and it's not hard work, it's just work! H**l I have rats and mice in my bathroom and you NEVER smell them, I bother to clean the enclosures once a week and change the water bottles out every two days for clean ones! There's no sense in it smelling, it only takes a few minutes... And with the snakes, I'm constantly cleaning water and looking for feces, cleaning it up and replacing the substrate and once a week everything is removed, cleaned in antibacterial soap, rinsed, then sprayed with white vinegar and water and dryed, then replaced and the snakes put back in a nice clean enclosure! My dang Amazon Parrot eats better than I do and probably has cleaner facilities!!! LOL

Rant off [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif[/img]

Thanks for any advice and input in advance

Tay
[addsig]

Ok.. This seems to be an ever-ending thing that takes place and there seems to be a complete lack of authority involved when it does it most states. In our state there are the basic laws, yeah try and apply them to the herps [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] If it were a cat, dog or otherwise "known" domesticated animal then they'd be all over it.
Here's something that I found out talking with various people in "positions" in our state....
The local a/c unit has NO authority when it comes to other than domestic animals actually. ie.. dogs and cats..yes...reptiles ..NO. Allthough they do take calls and also respond to them as well. Yet, they do NOT have any clue what is what, so that makes for them not actually being able to accomplish much in regards to reptiles from what I have seen.

The ASPCA.. weeell let's NOT go there at all ! They are only concerned with domesticated animals from what I am seeing, and that's not even in my own state that I just see this either. The burm & boa that I had picked up in another state the other day, when they were contacted, they had said to just "let the snakes go in the woods" ...[bARGHHHHHHHHH!![/b] HEY! We're NOT talking about Florida here [ NOT that it would be ok to do that there even] This is New England, where our temps get VERY COLD in winter. A certain death sentence for the snakes had such been done..ARGHHH!!

Something I have found out recently which may be of some help to you in the situation going on at that pet store is this..
Our a/c & state F&W department actually is obligated to refer abuse, complaints and the like concerning reptiles to our EPA... There is actually a special unit set up for the complaints etc and they are the ones that handle ALL reptile related calls of the sort. AND this is NOT just in relation to the indigenous reptiles either, it is [b]ALL[/of them. Most people don't know this at all. I had to ask a lot of questions for something once a lil while back and happened to find the information out as an added thing for what I was looking for even.
Try checking out if your state has any type of complaint policy like this one with such as F&W or EPA or the like. Afterall, IF a complaint is not filed with the proper agency, it's like it was never filed at all. Would be nice if the agency that receives the complaint refered it over when it needs to be, but we all know how much people just loooove to go out of their way when it concerns reptiles [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]
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[sophia]

>> The ASPCA.. weeell let's NOT go there at all ! They are only concerned with domesticated animals from what I am seeing, and that's not even in my own state that I just see this either. The burm & boa that I had picked up in another state the other day, when they were contacted, they had said to just "let the snakes go in the woods" ...[bARGHHHHHHHHH!![/b] HEY! We're NOT talking about Florida here [ NOT that it would be ok to do that there even] This is New England, where our temps get VERY COLD in winter. A certain death sentence for the snakes had such been done..ARGHHH!!
>>

What the H**L??? Don't you just despise the political pass the buck set-up!

>> Something I have found out recently which may be of some help to you in the situation going on at that pet store is this..
>>Our a/c & state F&W department actually is obligated to refer abuse, complaints and the like concerning reptiles to our EPA... There is actually a special unit set up for the complaints etc and they are the ones that handle ALL reptile related calls of the sort. AND this is NOT just in relation to the indigenous reptiles either, it is [b]ALL[/of them. Most people don't know this at all. I had to ask a lot of questions for something once a lil while back and happened to find the information out as an added thing for what I was looking for even.
>>Try checking out if your state has any type of complaint policy like this one with such as F&W or EPA or the like. Afterall, IF a complaint is not filed with the proper agency, it's like it was never filed at all. Would be nice if the agency that receives the complaint refered it over when it needs to be, but we all know how much people just loooove to go out of their way when it concerns reptiles [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]


Thank you so much, it hadn't occured to me but I will do that Lori! Thanks, good idea!


Tay

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[LdyDrgn]

As far as the reptiles being in horrid conditions, possibly the owner/employees do not know the proper care and/or are too afraid of the snakes to clean the enclosures.

Not an excuse, I know.....but that is usually the cause. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img]
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[eddie]

There has been a few pet stores here I and another member have been trying to get fined, shut down whatever for over 6 months.
I have plenty of pics of a LOT of neglectful situations in all areas and all kinds of animals too.
The local Animal control has the pics and write ups on them alonmg with some help from others, such as locals that work with reptiles and furries as a profession.

The biggest hurdle is getting the supervisers at AC to get off their bums and make a decision about them.
But hopefully some of the inside pressure and nagging will do some good soon.

Neglects such as a full grown alligator snapping turtle, living in a 4' long galvinized tub in the back room at one.
A gravid 18' retic in a 2.5 x 2' enclosure.
Many intermixed species.
Several large burms living in their feces with exposed 2" wwod screws, lamps, ZERO humids, temp at 74 year round, one in a wire cage, another in atotally enclosed cage with NO ventilation, all with heat rocks that are for small animals...( heat rocks..UGH...)

Iguanas ( adult) in a totally enclosed cage with no ventilation, or heat source save a hot rock, no UV lighting etc. One cage had two males together.

Water dragons in a desert set up.

None of the animals being fed properly as one burm had visible scarring and gashes on its neck due to feeding on live rabbits.

All the reptiles with multiple retained sheds and no water etc.

Rabbits, full grown, stuffed in a small cage, dead mice and rats everywhere, puppies with mange, cats and kittens with swollen shut eyes, birds that are in constant molt, prolly from mites.
Ticks and mites in many cages with snakes, etc.....


Any of these which are clear neglect cases, yet ignored for now because they are evil reptiles....

And yes, our animal control in Meck county DOES respond and deal with reptile cases.
So I do know they have jurisdiction in most areas needed to get the job done on them....
[addsig]

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

[sophia]

>>As far as the reptiles being in horrid conditions, possibly the owner/employees do not know the proper care and/or are too afraid of the snakes to clean the enclosures.
>>
>>Not an excuse, I know.....but that is usually the cause. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img]

You know I wouldn't be so angry over the whole thing if it were the case. I might even spend my own time and money to print out care sheets and go in and have a sit down with the management about it. But this punk took over the store for his father and when his father ran the place it was always clean and the animals well cared for, he even kept hots upstairs for people to educate themselves as to the differences! It's not the case though, it's a punk a**ed kid who fancies himself the be all end all and thinks it's so goth and cool to sell snakes! I'd really love to pop his head right off his neck, just squeeze it like a zit! Yes, I know that wouldn't settle anything, but with his smart a**ed attitude, it would sure make me feel a lot better!

I've resigned myself to the fact that in some gray areas of our society, there just simply is no justice to protect innocent life. Sad but true.


Tay

[addsig]

	Venomous Reptile A term commonly used to refer to a venomous reptile. Most commonly used in reference to venomous snakes.

[sophia]

>>There has been a few pet stores here I and another member have been trying to get fined, shut down whatever for over 6 months.
>>I have plenty of pics of a LOT of neglectful situations in all areas and all kinds of animals too.
>>The local Animal control has the pics and write ups on them alonmg with some help from others, such as locals that work with reptiles and furries as a profession.

Have you guys thought about forming an organization in the state that perhaps could monitor these stores and harass these government agencies? I'd be very interested in helping out with that. I have some experience with breeding exotic birds, dogs, handling and raising some reptiles and I try to rescue hots around here and people know to call me rather than to destroy them, the county just put out a feeler for volunteer snake removal in the area and I think I'm going to answer the call, bags, hooks, and tongs in hand. I don't claim to be the know all end all of reptiles, I have a LOT to learn that's for sure, but I've been in love with them since childhood and rescuing native species from undereducated rednecks for as long as I can remember, so my door and hand of assistance is always open for you.



>>
>>The biggest hurdle is getting the supervisers at AC to get off their bums and make a decision about them.
>>But hopefully some of the inside pressure and nagging will do some good soon.

That's why I was trying to track down these laws in regard to pet protections in other states, to hopefully create some sort of format for submission to our legislators. I do know that a lady at The N.C. Iguana Rescue, is trying to get some sort of petition together to protect reptiles sold in the pet trade, a lady from the Fayetteville Observer sent me her URL today and told me to check them out. I need to write her because a copy of the petition is not posted on the site. Are you familiar with her at all?

As to the loca agencies Eddie, I'm beginning to wonder if they're in the pockets of these larger shops, because the smaller shops I've been going into are kept immaculately, while the larger ones conditions for the most part have been horrid!


>>
>>Neglects such as a full grown alligator snapping turtle, living in a 4' long galvinized tub in the back room at one.
>>A gravid 18' retic in a 2.5 x 2' enclosure.
>>Many intermixed species.
>>Several large burms living in their feces with exposed 2" wwod screws, lamps, ZERO humids, temp at 74 year round, one in a wire cage, another in atotally enclosed cage with NO ventilation, all with heat rocks that are for small animals...( heat rocks..UGH...)
>>
>>Iguanas ( adult) in a totally enclosed cage with no ventilation, or heat source save a hot rock, no UV lighting etc. One cage had two males together.
>>
>>Water dragons in a desert set up.
>>
>>None of the animals being fed properly as one burm had visible scarring and gashes on its neck due to feeding on live rabbits.
>>
>>All the reptiles with multiple retained sheds and no water etc.
>>
>>Rabbits, full grown, stuffed in a small cage, dead mice and rats everywhere, puppies with mange, cats and kittens with swollen shut eyes, birds that are in constant molt, prolly from mites.
>>Ticks and mites in many cages with snakes, etc.....
>>
>>
>>Any of these which are clear neglect cases, yet ignored for now because they are evil reptiles....

Yes, I do think that there's some sort of religious ideology ingrained in our culture that makes their case against reptiles and I think personally that it's simple mind-blindness, but what can you do besides 'try' to educate. Just try telling a fundie that the snakes can't be bad if their creator created it, they don't seem to get the point and I can't for the life of me, figure out their weird rationale. Ahh well... so be it, we'll just have to do more as a group I suppose to protect our reptiles rights.


>>
>>And yes, our animal control in Meck county DOES respond and deal with reptile cases.
>>So I do know they have jurisdiction in most areas needed to get the job done on them....

I just don't understand that... what do we need to do Eddie? Do you think it would make a bit of difference if we as owners and breeders voluntered our services to them to help with the problems at hand? I've offered! I got NO response.

Tay
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	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks