debate..kinda

[Cristina]

this isnt ment to start any problems its been on my mind..

Im getting into breeding in the next few yrs as u may know..mostly b/c i love,respect,and appreciate thier beauty..I love all the different creations u can make and though u can make money..I know that my 1st instinct when I see the little babies would be to keep them all

and while I would love to have them all in huge Boaphile or vision cages..Im switching to a rack system..I had Steve in a 40 gl breeder tank..which i will use to breed..and the other ones were in nice cages w/ fake plants and a nice natural setting..

So my mom goes, " your going to put them in drawers?" "thats terrible!..How is he ( Steve) going to feel from goin from a nice big tank to a drawer?"

I started to think..are they unhappy like that?..I know that is how breeders keep them in the racks w/ a water bowl on newspaper and some w/ no hides..I wouldnt care how much a snake is worth, if it was unhappy.

Can they get depressed?...I dont know I would never want an animal to be unhappy..dog, cat, or snake.

So I guess im feelin guilty..Do they really know the difference??

[ChadRamsey]

I am one of those that is against the whole "bin for life" set up. Last time I went herping I did not stumble across ANY herps living in bins in the wild! I am a firm believer that you should provide them with ADEQUATE space to best accommodate each specimen's husbandry needs. AND that does not include a bin anywhere for a permanent enclosure. Neonates and quarantine animals are an exception IMO.

Try this: move into you bathroom for a week. Do not use any other part of your house, JUST the bathroom. And see how old that gets!

	In My Opinon IMO = In My Opinion and IMHO = In My Honest Opinion

[Fenderplayer108]

Well I am one of those people that uses rack systems. Let me tell you though, just because you have a rack system doesnt mean that you have to give them no hides, newspaper, and total darkness. I use rack systems with all of our snakes and we provide them with great setups. Just like Gus posted a while back, all of our snakes are housed with aspen, some reptibark. We give them a nice large water dish adequate to there size. We also give them a nice clay pot hide, with 2 or 3 artificial plants.

Yes it gets pricey to get all 200-400 of those setup, but its worth it in the end because you feel that the snakes are in the best setups that they can be in currently.

What I have noticed though is snakes that are brought up in tanks are better off in tanks. Most snakes who are in tanks get stressed easy due to everyone trying to view. I have had feeding problemed snakes that were in tanks move over into tubs and they had zero problems after that.

Although I think if you have the tanks already ready and they are using them fine, I would stick to that and just build a hatchling rack.

Ryan

[CraigC]

I think there is a line between hobbiest-breeders and mass-breeders. As a hobbiest-breeder myself (my definition is one who interacts with their animals, breeds on a low scale to increase collection and sells a few animals to help support that collection), I built cages specifically for breeding females. They are larger than my standard adult enclosures. I wouldn't be keeping animals if I were just going to stick them in a tub out of sight. Whether they admit to it or not, mass-breeders view the animals as livestock that are kept with minimal requirments and cost, to make money. I doubt that "enjoyment" has much to do with it.

Craig

[louise]

i would never use tubs.

[Cristina]

this has all been very informative..i am using aspen and have hides and plants..and plan on fully interacting w/ them..have a hatchling rack..all the ones comming in are babies...def not going to be a mass breeder just wanted to do it for the fun and b/c thats what they do in the wild...so im gonna keep Steve and Lava in the big tanks and as the little ones grow get them bigger ones..i will prolly go w/ Boaphile stack setups...I know they sell one that is the same size as the 40 gl tank..then I can stack them to save space...

[Slithers]

these are Ball pythons...

they will be fine in tubs. aquariums are for fish.

tubs hold humidity and heat great, are lightweight and easy to clean, very inexpensive and also appropriately sized for ball pythons.

i dont really know how steve and lava will take it, but i am sure they will be fine.

ps...ive never been "herping" but I have never seen a snake in a boaphile or an aquarium in the wild. makes sense that you wouldnt see a snake in a tub in the wild...

I think that if you keep your husbandry up to standard, there is NOTHING wrong with an appropriately sized tub. Sometimes tubs are actually easier to maintain...allowing you to be a better keeper.

my 2¢

pps...my bp tubs have 2 hides a water bowl and a climbing log. They are extremely happy and great eaters.

	Ball Python The Ball Python (Python regius), also known as the Royal Python, is a ground dwelling snake native to the savannahs and rain forests in western Africa, predominatly the countries of Ghana, Togo, and Benin.