disturbing!!!!!!!

[sanman]

i overheard a boa breeder saying he had an 06 female that he is pumping up and going to breed her this fall saying that she is the girth of a coffee can alreay that just flips me out to hear that greeding jerk do that to an animal

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[Sleepy_FF]

.... yuck. thats HORRIBLE.

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[sanman]

so do you think thats why alot of these breeders have slugs and stillborns and there females pass away?

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[fire_kat]

That is awful.Money is a strong motive for some people,it blinds them as to what is right and wrong for the animal.

3.2.0 ball pythons(Ami,Zane,Benny,Joon) / 1.0.0 mountain horned dragon(Hextor)
3.1.0 corns(Checkers,Ruby,Guinivere) / 0.0.1 chinese water dragon(Maia)
1.2.0 red tail boas(Jade,Cosmo,Wanda)/ 1.0.0 bearded dragon(Elliot)
1.0.0 brooksi/goloni king(Flash)/ 1.0.0 savannah monitor(Zeus)
1.0.0 burmese python(Kane) / 0.2.0 dogs(Abbee,Hanna)
0.0.1 chaco golden knee tarantula(Tiny)/ 0.2.0 teddy bear hamsters(Streaker,Reeper)
unknown amount of rodents for feeding /0.1.0 kitten (Neila)

[tbowman]

what does pumping up mean?

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[Fenderplayer108]

Originally Posted by tbowman

what does pumping up mean?

Basically its short for feeding ALOT. Therefor, pumping up = overfeeding to gain girth.

Ryan

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[tbowman]

is it the same as powerfeeding just different name?

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[Sponger05]

yes

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[sanman]

shes over 6 1/2' i did not put that in thae message and the girth of a coffee can i could see some yearlings gettting to that maybe some just grow but its the girth thats disturbing

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[SSReptiles]

She must look like a sausage! Poor thing. Too bad she'll have a very short life

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[Cristina]

I didnt know u could just keep feeding and feeding a snake...like some dogs..or at least mine.lol....how come they dont just regurge it?...how much do u have to feed a snake to get that big?...poor thing
its like ppl who run puppy mills..they dont care about the animal..just money..

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	regurgitate Throw up. Reptiles will regurge when they feel they are in danger or if they have some sort of health issue. If your reptile has regurgitated his/her food please seek help!

[sanman]

i am not sure i was hoping Gus,julias or bw would post on this forum im just posting something that i overheard in ashow i have also heard that some of these morph guys have killed there females trying to get the next big thing its all about the$$$$$$$$ to them

	Morph A morph is a color or pattern variation that is proven to be genetic. Common morphs include albino, anerythristic, gentically striped, Hypomelanistic, and many others. Morphs also include combinations of simple traits such as "Sunglow" which is Albino and Hypomelanistic. These traits may be recessive traits, co-dominant traits, dominant traits, or created through selective breeding (ie Pastel).

[barrychapman]

what is considered power feeding? more than once a week?

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[JuliusSqueezer]

Power feeding kills...even Jeff Ronne finally admitted that power fed boas rarely live past 4 years.

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[CraigC]

Is there not a "time frame" for boas to reach sexual maturity? Emeralds are usually around 4-5 years for males and 5-6 years for females. You try power feeding them and you have a big problem on your hands. No matter how fat an 8 year old child is, they still aren't sexually mature. Just curious.

Craig

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[Sleepy_FF]

Originally Posted by CraigC

Is there not a "time frame" for boas to reach sexual maturity? Emeralds are usually around 4-5 years for males and 5-6 years for females. You try power feeding them and you have a big problem on your hands. No matter how fat an 8 year old child is, they still aren't sexually mature. Just curious.
Craig

good point craig

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[CraigC]

Then I would imagine that low yield is the standard result. That it is just the breeder trying to get morphs that will sell for high dollars as opposed to quality and quantity in clutches or litters. If it also means shortened life span for the parents, then I don't care how "cool" the morph is, it is just irresponsible breeding practices, driven by dollars. Not my bag.

Craig

	Morph A morph is a color or pattern variation that is proven to be genetic. Common morphs include albino, anerythristic, gentically striped, Hypomelanistic, and many others. Morphs also include combinations of simple traits such as "Sunglow" which is Albino and Hypomelanistic. These traits may be recessive traits, co-dominant traits, dominant traits, or created through selective breeding (ie Pastel).

[JuliusSqueezer]

There is no time frame for most reptiles. When they become big enough to breed, they can breed. Corallus seems to be an exception though. There always is one, right? I've seen various emeralds and most notably, amazons take as long as 10 years to hit maturity and breed even though they were "big enough" for several years prior. Rapid growth isn't healthy though and as you mentioned with some of them with ultra slow metabolisms, you compound the problem dealing with their inability to process that much food. Any attempt to power feed anything corallus will backfire with regurges and deaths long before breeding is even a remote possibility. Boa constrictors can usually take quite a bit with seemingly no issues and be up to breeding size in less than 2 years. Some even actually have viable litters at that early age but all too often, they end up dropping a pile of slugs and then taking a year off to recover and breed again at 4 years old where they should have waited for anyway! So all that was gained was a fat young snake that has an enormous amount of fat around the heart and who will probably drop dead after only one litter if they survive to breed again at all...yet it continues and the breeders know but they risk it to hopefully be in on certain projects while the prices are still high. This could have something to do with why you don't see many adult snow boas. Who has them? What are they feeding them? I'm sure a quick return on that sort of investment would be great, but when you end up with nothing but a freezer full of pretty white snakes, what was the point?

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	regurgitate Throw up. Reptiles will regurge when they feel they are in danger or if they have some sort of health issue. If your reptile has regurgitated his/her food please seek help!

[CraigC]

Originally Posted by timbercane

this is what i was touching on in other threads because i've seen it first hand from guys that are VERY well respected around the community.
sadly, it is always a business first and the company that actually cares about the snakes is rare.
from what i've seen, importers like glades herp have more sound practices than true breeders. people talk about the negative impact of importing, but it's not that great for snakes to be breeding machines with horrible, short lives. i know that the owner of glades herp gets a clear bill of health from the vet before every sale and worms every animal as well. they are actually well cared for and that's more than you can say for a lot of breeders, especially big time designer breeders.
it's really sad and rarely discussed in depth

I have been in glades, when they were right off of I-75 at exit 25. I was looking at emeralds. Those were my foolish days when I still bought fresh imports. I must say that I wasn't impressed with the condition of the emeralds they had. Mind you, I didn't look at anything else. One juvie basin in particular seemed to have at least two stuck sheds. I know they moved and I haven't been to the new location, so I can't comment on recent conditions.

Craig

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[CraigC]

Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

There is no time frame for most reptiles. When they become big enough to breed, they can breed. Corallus seems to be an exception though. There always is one, right? I've seen various emeralds and most notably, amazons take as long as 10 years to hit maturity and breed even though they were "big enough" for several years prior. Rapid growth isn't healthy though and as you mentioned with some of them with ultra slow metabolisms, you compound the problem dealing with their inability to process that much food. Any attempt to power feed anything corallus will backfire with regurges and deaths long before breeding is even a remote possibility. Boa constrictors can usually take quite a bit with seemingly no issues and be up to breeding size in less than 2 years. Some even actually have viable litters at that early age but all too often, they end up dropping a pile of slugs and then taking a year off to recover and breed again at 4 years old where they should have waited for anyway! So all that was gained was a fat young snake that has an enormous amount of fat around the heart and who will probably drop dead after only one litter if they survive to breed again at all...yet it continues and the breeders know but they risk it to hopefully be in on certain projects while the prices are still high. This could have something to do with why you don't see many adult snow boas. Who has them? What are they feeding them? I'm sure a quick return on that sort of investment would be great, but when you end up with nothing but a freezer full of pretty white snakes, what was the point?

Brett,
There is an interesting discussion going on at the corallus forums, regarding this subject.
http://corallus.com/ikonboard/ikonbo...=ST;f=13;t=615
This is one of the beginning years where F1s have been paired up. Seems that success has been few and far between. Look at the picture of Arnold Chans basin premies (all dead and he lost the mother). I think it is looking like a there is more leaning to waiting longer before pairings are tried. I know of a couple breeders that have tried an "emerald version" of power feeding, which is staying on the same feeding time lines, but increasing food item size exponetially, throwing out the "no larger than girth" rule. It seems the only thing that has been accomplished is having some very large 2 and 3 year old emeralds. Most every neo that has been thrown up to last season have been from WC stock. I think the emerald world is about to take its next step in the learning curve. Maybe waiting longer will prove to be the correct course.
Don't you think that slugging out or small egg clutch yield is indicative of animals that aren't ready to go? Who really knows what the morph producing techniques are doing to the animals physiology? Maybe morphs sexual maturity time frame has been affected. We probably won't know, since information that gets out with inbreeding seems to reflect the "positive" only, whether it is accurate or not.
Craig

	Morph A morph is a color or pattern variation that is proven to be genetic. Common morphs include albino, anerythristic, gentically striped, Hypomelanistic, and many others. Morphs also include combinations of simple traits such as "Sunglow" which is Albino and Hypomelanistic. These traits may be recessive traits, co-dominant traits, dominant traits, or created through selective breeding (ie Pastel).