Why are abominations "cool"?

JuliusSqueezer · #1 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 04:29 PM

This dates back to preschool days or possibly even earlier. Most humans have a thing for the "different". But why? Why is that? Remember back in the early school years when the teacher was handing out rulers. Even if your favorite color in the whole world was red, if there was a box of dozens of red rulers but one ugly brown one, the kids would dive head first into the box to fight over the brown one...because it's different than the red ones everyone else would be forced to use. People seem to lack the ability to compare objectively. Forget for a second that all the other rulers are red. Convince yourself that there are equal numbers of each and being the holder of that coveted oddball ruler will not define you as a person. Once you have convinced yourself that the oddity factor is removed. WHICH ONE LOOKS BETTER?...I'm sure you know where I'm going with this. Is an anery boa cool because it lacks that nasty red color that you hate or because it's not like the other more commonly seen boas? Is a patternless snake better because patterns suck or because it's different? Imagine a world where the normal boas were all plain brown snakes with little or no pattern or color. Then all of a sudden one popped out with vibrant saddles a pretty red tail...you know...pretty much what we think of now as normal. Which one would be "cool" then? As a general rule, the herp community is being preyed upon by this primordial need to have something different...whether it looks better or not is not important. DIFFERENT is cool? Why do I care? Tastes vary and who am I to put down what someone else finds exciting in this hobby? Well, it seems that over the years this excitment for the different has spawned a market that can easily be filled by unethical breeding practices. If the market for mutants stays so holy grailish...I fear that this hobby may suffer a great deal of irreversible long term damage from all the inbreeding that will ruin it for the future generations. We have already seen a good bit of captive inbreeding depression and with no change in the ethics and morals of some of the big name breeders with followings...the domino effect is running amuck. That's my rant for the day.

SnakeCollector · #2 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 04:34 PM

your right but i dont know why i still like the different better

louise · #3 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 04:44 PM

i am lucky. i like all the normals better. no way can any burm compare to a normal. i dont like how any albinos look either. i guess that does make me the odd ball anyways. lol

JuliusSqueezer · #4 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballpythoncaptivebred

your right but i dont know why i still like the different better

You like different better even though it causes weakend genetics, early death, flaws and health issues that affect entire lines of animals ...countless individual animals and takes interest away from breeding healthy ones? Interesting.

SnakeCollector · #5 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 04:47 PM

i like the animals not what it does

badkittyamy · #6 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 04:48 PM

I think it depends on what attracts people, I'm not all to fond of the completely patternless leopard geckos unless they have really stunning colours. As for snakes I love the normals, but I'm a fan of bright wild colours versus earth tones, which is probably why i'm into leopard geckos anyway. I can't speak for everyone but some people's tastes are just different There are some albinos and morphs i think lovely but there are some I think are hideous as well. For me it's each individual animal.

SnakeCollector · #7 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 04:48 PM

my favorite snake is a calico reticulated python

ChristopherD · #8 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 04:50 PM

I like Olive pythons... not too much in the way of "difference"

badkittyamy · #9 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

You like different better even though it causes weakend genetics, early death, flaws and health issues that affect entire lines of animals ...countless individual animals and takes interest away from breeding healthy ones? Interesting.

I don't think a lot of people when looking at a snake morph know or think about weakened genetics and health issues. I could put up the same argument for anyone who likes toy dogs. All those breeds are highly prone to every health issue yet people still love them because they're cute.

SnakeCollector · #10 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 04:51 PM

like this calico http://www.newenglandreptile.com/retic_calico.html

HisssssyFit · #11 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 04:57 PM

I could take this and run with it and even show you examples in how human taste on the whole run to being attracted to other people just because they have something different that everyone else, take blondes for example. But I'll leave it alone, I'm not sure we have enough bandwith and with my underlying abhorance for the homo sapiens on the whole its probably better that I do leave it alone.

Needless to say I would always be the one to take the red ruler anyday and scoff at the poor fool that fought so hard for the brown. Yes I was the dark morbid one in highschool too, why do you ask?

JuliusSqueezer · #12 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 04:57 PM

Bingo, Amy. Hence the reason for opening the discussion. If you want to fix the problem even a wee little bit, blinders have to be removed.

scarlettrose2006 · #13 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 04:58 PM

Wow Julius, I'm giving you 5 stars for that post.

So often I wanted to say the same thing, but I never find the right words. Some people have accused me of being "jealous" of morphs and not liking them as much because of that.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Just like you said....take a person that knows nothing about snakes, morphs and all of that and show him a healthy normal ball python and then one I have seen once that was a fishbelly strange light beige color full of peppery spots.

I think EVERYONE would pick the normal one as the good looking one. The morph I'm thinking about actually looked "sick" to me...really un-attractive.

But hey, its "weird" so its like winning the lottery.

I don't really dig albinos all that much. (sorry) I think the only snake I like in albino from are the blood pythons. And thats because they don't really look albino to me, they are full of color and patterns, just very bright.

Lately I lurked on Kingsnake Boa Forum and I was shocked to see just HOW MANY breeders had bad litters. Many slugs, and also many, many deformed babies or pre-term dead ones.

Consequently those litters were by breeding some kind of morph to another kind of morph.

Perhaps trying to "further" genetic abnomalities isn't really the way to go? Perhaps there is only so far you can go with breeding FOR genetic flaws, before it blows up in your face? Honestely, I don't know, but I couldn't help but notice all that lately.

And yes, a completely patternless boa would imho look strange. Kind of boring. A brown/grey snake.

I do have to admit, that I have seen some handsome snakes in the morph world. Usually those are the ones that are still full of pattern and color and not as far removed or "strange" from the normals. Just perhaps brighter colored, cleaner or just handsomely patterned.

But the crazyness about the Ball Morphs just leaves me in awe. How many morphs are there now?
Some morphs look like an animal with a skin disease or rash. How is that attractive? New snakes that have scales missing. YIKES.

Only in the animal industry where the weird, un-normal and different is so highly coveted.

This is just my opinion and I respect that the "morphers" have a different opinion.

Oh, btw..the pied Ball Pythons is ONE morph I actually find pretty

nomadbean · #14 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 04:59 PM

Interesting thread... I think the almost pathological need to make a new morph is the very thing that defines most snake owners... we like different. Most people you say "pet" to think cuddly & furry most of us here think scaly and cold-blooded. We like things different and not the norm, so morphs and color patterns that are new are icing on the proverbial cake.
As far as unethical breeding practices, yes there are a lot of people that will inbreed at the cost of the animals for the 1 in 10,000 chance something new will pop out. Snakes are more primative than mammals so genetically it has been explained to me they can tolerate a little more inbreeding than mammals, is this true? Maybe, but three or four generations of inbreeding is a just excessive. Dog breeders and royalty(mostly past tense) are just as bad with keeeping bloodlines "pure" and getting "flaws" as they call them. It will never go away as long as we get new morphs that are brighter, newer and cooler.
I must also admit that I do like some of the morphs a lot and I hate others(albino most anything looks washed out), but in my sand boas nothing beats a wild-type pattern(aka normal). Do I inbreed my snakes? Not usually, but I am not sure if some I bought are related, so maybe...
This is thought provoking, I think we- as a pet community-just put our interests before the animals sometimes, sadly.
Trina
OMNIherp, LLC

SnakeCollector · #15 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 05:08 PM

some snakes i do like the normals better but on others i like the morphs better most norms do look better than the albinos but some albinos look better such as the albino blood python(already mentioned) and the paradox albino ball python i like better than the norms and i think that some people(sometimes me)look at the value of the animal($$$)

badkittyamy · #16 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 05:10 PM

Humans will never stop being attracted to things that are pretty even if it's bad for them, from that dress that doesn't quite fit to that little toy dog that is oh so cute with severe cataracs or respiritory problems. I could go as far as to mention people who will go an eat that whole pie when they are already overweight.
Stupid people to me will always be stupid people I hate toy dogs because I think they're hideous, look at their skeletal structure and you can see they're messed up. http://www.skullsunlimited.com/graph...a-skull-lg.jpg
looks like an alien.
So I guess that's the way you feel about the snake morphs Julius? And isn't just some morphs or all. And is it just snakes or are their other heprs suffering because of humans want of bigger and better?

BWSmith · #17 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 05:13 PM

Morphs command a higher price. Some just see Dollar signs and not the animal.

JuliusSqueezer · #18 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 05:15 PM

The random chance of inbreeding occasionally in the wild could actually be as important as diversity. However, inbreeding in the wild may mean distant cousins, half or quarter brother and sisters...and it's unlikely for the exact pairing to happen more than once. Weak animals in the wild seldom survive to breeding age. In captivity, sibling pairs or mother son pairs are paired up and repeatedly bred. Weak animals showing a desired trait are seldom culled but instead are pumped full of antibiotics, forcefed or otherwise nurtured to survive so they can breed their problems into new generations. Inbreeding in the wild is not systematic in pairing generation after generation of siblings or son to moms. There is no rule for how many generations are ok to inbreed. Problems could pop up right away with the first generation or it could take several. It's random. To be honest, there is even a small chance that no provlem from inbreeding will ever occur if the original pair had no bad genes. Unfortunatly though...mutant genes that are desired are often accompanied by undesirable bad genes as well and inbreeding means both parents likely have the bad genes as well as the desired genes so the inbreeding insures that the undesirable health problems will also manifest. It's funny you bring up "royalty". I use this example often lol. A quick glance at Prince Charles's ears should be enough to turn anyone against inbreeding.

JuliusSqueezer · #19 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 05:19 PM

I don't hate all morphs. I think some are rather attractive. Albino or amelanism I see as a defect though, not a morph. It's a defeciency of something they need to be healthy. If the morph can be produced without inbreeding or without causing health issues and make no mistake...albinism/amelanism IS a health issue...I'm all for them. I like pied snakes. I have a few myself. I can promise you though, they will never be inbred.

scarlettrose2006 · #20 (**permalink**) 05-25-2006, 05:20 PM

I don't really think it can even be compared to breeding toydogs (and no, i'm not into those teeny tiny ones)

It would be more comparable to breeding all white dogs, or like breeding merle colored dogs to merle color.

What you get are genetic faults then, like deafness. Of course snakes have no ears, so you don't have to worry about that. But many albinos have eye-problems or even non - existant eyes.

Those types of dogs are NOT being bred for, because of the severe consequences.

Even most toydogs still live healthy long lives, even more so then the giant breeds.

If you would consistently get a LOT of dead puppies, pre-term puppies, and esp. DEFORMED puppies, you would not try to breed for that anomilty anymore.

At least I have never heard of severe inbreeding in dogs and cats that will lead to regular and consistant problems with deafness, deformities and dead litters/preterm litters.

So imho what is happening in the reptile world goes far beyond what then what happens with other animals when it comes to breeding.

Advertisement