Steve Irwin, Friend or Foe?

[BWSmith]

Okay. Time to vent a little bit [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Bear with me, I will probably rant and bounce around a lot.

In the past couple years (since Croc Hunter began) I have noticed a dramatic increase in the amount of captive venomous bites int he U.S. I am bombarded with headlines of "Man Bit by Pet Cobra" and "Local Man Pays Price for Deadly and Illegal Pet Viper." I will be the first to conciede that he (and others like him) have brought reptiles and particularly dangerous herps into the mainstream and has brought about a greater understanding of our scaly friends. That in turn, makes our lives easier. However, as a venomous keeper, I have a vested interest in this issue. I cannot tell you how many "kids" email me wanting to know if I will sell them a copperhead, what the best first venomous is, or if I can get a cobra for them. Every venomous education program has at least one kid saying "are you like the Crocadile Hunter?" or "Steve irwin doesn't need to use a hook." This brings a murky problem in a specific direction. The sad part is that with the acceptance of these animals, comes more people wanting to own them. Thus, there are inevitably going to be more bites. The sad part is, that it is not just kids. Many "adults" are delving into the world of venomous. Many with little or no experience with nonvenomous species. Whether it is for "macho-ism", a genuine interest, or another reason, is of little relevance. The point is that unqualified, iresposible, and untrained individuals are keeping inherently dangerous animals. I have many stories about his, but the one that Allen Hunter told me recently was a prime example. He was talking hots with a man who just got a Bush Viper (Atheris sp.). "Oh, what kind of Bush Viper" >"just a Bush Viper"< "Well, what is the latin name?" (As a point of reference, common names in venomous are very misleading as there are many names for one snake and the same name for many snakes: There are many species of Bush Viper) >"I don't know the Latin name"< "Well, do you know where to get antivenin?" >"OH, OF COURSE I DO!"< Imagine his suprise when he learned that there is NO ANTIVENIN for Atheris sp.! This is just one example of people keeping hot snakes with little or no knowledge about them. And along the same lines is the issue of Venomoids (venomous snakes who have had there venom glands removed or venom ducts severed). I have noticed a marked increase in the number of venomoids on the market. Right now on the Kingsnake Venomous Classifieds there are over a dozen ads for venomoids. This is a marked increase form 2 years ago when there was maybe one or two a month. Why? Because there is a market. Where there is a demand, they will produce a product. Do you think that the true venomous keepers are buying these snakes? I think not. Most find it an abomination of nature. The only logical conclusion is that they are being purchased by those who want to own a cobra or a Gaboon Viper, but do not have the skill to own a real hot. When Steve Irwin tails every single snake (including Back Mambas) he makes it look easy and safe. IT IS NOT EITHER! He has brought information about these creatures to the average american household. But he has also caused a major falacy. That these are easy snakes to work with. "I have had a ball python for 5 years now, I think I will move up to a Western Diamondback Rattlesnake." You may as well be writing on a tombstone. What this does is not only hurt the individual, but hurts the entire venomous community and the herp community as a whole. We have all seen how easily laws get passed banning herps. Alabama is a prime example. A kid went to a dealer and bought some hots. A Spitting Cobra got loose. Within 2 weeks there was a law passed in AL banning venomous reptiles. It happens before you can blink. If this trend continues, all herps will be banned in the U.S. and we will all be fugitives.

Now in all fairness, the blame is not squarely on Steve Irwins shoulders. There are other factors. The rise in venomous ownership will rise some with the increase of popularity of herps as pets. But not to this extent. As far as kids, some blame may be placed on the parents. Many use the TV as a babysitter and do not monitor what they are watching. But that is not a major part of the blame. After all, Lord knows I did things that my parents did not know about! A degree of blame can be placed on the responsible venomous keepers as a whole. There are two major types of hot keepers. Those that spend their time educating the public and those that isolate themselves. Perhaps the ones that isolate themselves are fearful of persecution, legal action, or some other reason. That is fine. I know people that keep illegal venomous. But I believe that when you begin to keep hots, it is your responsibility to educate. When you have a passion for killers (and it must be a passion for true herpers to do this) then you should want to teach as much as you can to public. This includes that Steve is NOT handling them right! It is dangerous and irresponsible. He must realize that he IS a hero to many people. Thus he must teach by example. He must take some responsibility. Just use a hook! That is all I ask.

This trend will continue unless something is done. I am not talking censorship. But there are things that we can do. Educate as much as you can. But if you don't know the answer, then admit it. There is nothing worse than passing false information. On my herping trip this weekend, I learned three things about specific species that I did not know. NOONE knows everything, so pretend like you do. As for the kids, it has to be education, there is no other way. I have not done a single educational program (venomous or nonvenomous) where I did not here "Are you like the Croc Hunter?" or "Steve Irwin doesn't use a hook!" They must understand that he is entertainment, nothing more. He offers the least information about species of any of the TV Herpers (Corwin, O'Shea, Nigel, etc.). Then coem the "adults." In my opinion these people are nothing more than 25 or 35 year old children wanting a cool "toy". These are the most dangerous. Unfortunately, you cannot shake them and yell "DON"T DO THST! WHAT ARE YOU, AN IDIOT?!?!? YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE DOING OR WHAT YOU ARE GETTING INTO!!!" If we do that, they will just discard us a jerks and continue doing it, perhaps at that point out of spite or to prove that they can. You cannot make them understand the fundamental truth that if you keep venomous, you WILL get bit. Not if, but when. All we can do is try to educate them. If not for thier safety, for ours a herp loving community. Anyone who wants to keep hots, should read the article, Bitten By The Big One on www.VenomousReptiles.org That will change many minds. The bottom lin: Education is the key. The herp community has many enemies and few allies. The Humane Society (herp enemy number 1), PETA and a few others are fomidable adveraries. And make no mistake, they hate us. They hate us with true passion. And they do have power. We have but one major ally, PIJAC (Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council). And I highly advise joining. If we do not educate, if parents do not get involved, and if Steve Irwin and his producers do not take some resonsibility and realize what they are promoting, our hobby will be a memory.
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[Ed_r]

I agree with you 100%. Although Steve Irwin almost alway throws the disclaimer in there "I'm a professional don't do this" But at the same time showing these antics CAN be done and as the circus performer he is He dodged the bullet of fate again. I believe Steve Irwins #1 goal and point to prove is to remove the fear that all snakes and lizards and crocs and alligators are out to get humans.Basically to keep people from having the attitude it's cold blooded so lets kill it. And lets face it proving that reptiles are not dagerous to human unless we deliberately go and #$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^& them of is a rather boring and uneventfull tast to all of those that are not interested in herps. So flamboyancy(sp) is needed to keep peoples attention and interest and most importantly keep them tuning in for the next show. In allot of cases Steve does use a stick (I know Big Deal) as a makeshift snake hook. I believe this is to give the viewers the idea that when he stumbles upon a snake it is a surprise and not staged. We as herpers all know better but the average public doesn't.
The avg persone believes that in a 60 minute walk along an Australian road youll find every wild looking snake and reptile crawling up to you to be gleefully handled.
In Steve's defense he is not as bad as that moron Mark Oshea. I'vee a couple shows one in particular where he lets a cat snake (granted mildly venemous) bite him on the face!!! Ummm Ok what does that prove? that your a manly man so you can #$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^& of a mild hot and take a bite to the face? Wow I'm Imprressed....NOT!!!
Even though sometimes I don't care for Jeff Corwin's humor. He IS a very responsible herper. YOU almost never see him without a snake hook. And when he handled the mamba granted is wasn't nearly the entertainment value of freehanding the quickest,longest, and most toxic snake in Africa. I bet if they woulda let him duct tape the mamba's mouth shut he would have. I know I would. #$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^& I could almost smell the load in his pant through the tv screen. And I dont blame him one instant.

Sometimes you have to wonder if the media, in a backwards sort of way is hoping all of us go buy hot herps. So then the importers will be shut down by the laws that would quickly be imposed. Tv Has a huge influence in the rise in herp interest. I know I for one am 100% guilty of it. My mom while I was growing up raised me that snakes were evil ravenous killing machines. The Devils creation that preys on mamals. Untill I started watching the shows. Yes I always had a deep seeded "it's good to be bad" feeling about herps, but still had a bit of fear not to do it. After watching for a while realized that they are very fascinating creatures. But now it is to a fault. Yes after seeing the "profesionals" handling hots, granted i do understand to use equipment. But I do have the bug to get a hot. I question myself if I'm ready for it. Only really had herps for 3 years. But i think questioning one's self is a good thing. I may never own a hot. So many people now are so cocky because of tv that they don't feel they need to question themselves. When something is done unquestioned that is when it is dagerous.

i guess my main point is that Steve Irwin means well. He just really need to SHOW more responsability and precaution. Would I still watch him if he used tongs and hooks? #$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^& yes I would. Love seeing exotic species of animals in an exotic environment. I think that is the coolest part of the shows is the scenery around where the animals are suposedly found. Nature is such a beautiful thing it should be shared as much as possible, Specially for us in the concrete jungle that may never get to see it in our lifetime. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif[/img]
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[Dr.Oviparous]

Good post! read it, it's really worth it.

I totally agree, that is why I don't keep hots, I have no reason to. I don't do any type of education, and there are enough non-ven choices out there for me to choose from. -Juggalo
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[Ed_r]

Yep You really have to think about WHY would you want to keep a hot? I would do a Mangrove snake basically because they are beatiful, and very mildly venemous. I have to admit probably the reason I want to keep a hot is probably a testosterone boost. I think deep down thats what it is to all of us in one form or another. Just most of us won't admit it. Keeping a hot is like cheating death everyday. We all do it. Some of us get on a motorcycle and do 160mph on a highway, some race cars, We all need our thrill in life. We need something to prove that we are the superior species. A Man's got to know his limitations! granted if you own or work in a zoo you need to be somewhat comfortable with hots. Even for education like what BWsmith does. I really don't see a need for him to keep hots other than a personal satisfaction also. Don't get me wong I respect brian an aweful lot. Hots belong in a zoo. And one day I may be called a hipocrit too.
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[Seany]

Wow... talk about your long read... good post though.
I don't think it's Steve Erwin's fault or tv's... just reptile dealers out to make a quick buck.
Same way big dog breeders (pitt bulls, rotties) have a screening process for potential owners, so should hot dealers.
question the buyer, see what he knows and if he's up to it. Anybody who's fit to own a hot will understand and aprove of a screening process!!! If he doesn't like it, he shouldn't have one anyway! Nothing could be safer or easier. You just can't sell a hot to anyone who can cough up the cash... and that's your solution right there.
a hot in the wrong hands can be like a gun... give a kid a spitting cobra, doesn't work out, lets it out in the woods/park and god knows what comes next...
So, again, I think it's all up too the dealers. Just my .02
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[NYCSpeedcore]

Very good posts guys. I think that Steve, Jeff, and Mark are good for herping in general. What needs to be changed is the way hots are sold and kept. I am not sure how it all works now, but what needs to be done is some sort of licencing with a written test etc. needs to be passed to keep hots, not just applying for a permit. I know everyone hates big brother makeing any more restrictions, but in this case it would benifit the entire herp community by stopping a lot of the bad publicity that is happening and will continue to happen and grow in the future as more people become interested in reptiles.
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[Ed_r]

Very true. All the suposed reputable hot dealers all say you need a hot permit to buy. I would like to see a National televised search to see what dealers are actually sticking to this policy. Tha bad part is the ones that arent are selling deadly snakes for dirt cheap money. I believ i heard someone say some place was selling Death Adders for $35.00 Monacled Cobras for $50.00 Almost any 12-15yr old can come up with this kind of money. And most parents woundn't know a death adder from a garter snake, and its not tha parents fault. I'd garauntee theres dealers out there seeling to anyone that forks over the cash. I really would like to see an investigation on this.
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[natas]

Hey guys,

Feel free to write up a story on this and post it in the Submit News sections. I will put something like this on the front page and who know's maybe we can get some input from various people.

Also I love the idea of putting this into a survey, just email morti@redtailboa.net if you have idea's for our surveys.
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[BWSmith]

Keeping venomous is like a lot of other things. You cannot really understand the draw. When it is there, you cannot deny it. It is something you know that you have to do. If there is any doubt, you need not endulge. I have a good friend that is a geologist. "Come on man, they're rocks!" But he has always knows that it what he was here for. It is very similar. And yes, there is a degree of adrenaline. Of course. The minute you lose the respect, your as good as nailed.

That being said. I whole heartedly support a more thorough permit system. Florida is a good example. They hav a really good permit system. Not perfect, but the best int he country. Georgia, on the other hand, is screwed up. I cannot own a corn snake without wading through miles of red tape to get a special educational permit. But I can own a 6 foot Eastern Diamondback with no questions asked. There are examples in every state.
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	Corn Snake The Corn Snake or Red Rat Snake (Elaphe guttata) is a species of Rat Snake.