Grandparents/snakes/ The devil.......

Rottyguy · #1 (**permalink**) 03-23-2002, 03:10 AM

O.k so I have several snakes and the grandparents came to visit.... They see the snakes and tell me that I am playing with the devil... [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] " I KNOW" But they are hard core christians and I am also. But when it comes to some things ( LIKE SNAKES ) I have a diffrent form of opinion...Anyway they tell me that the snakes are the devil " it's in the bible" they say, Which I know. Now let me start this by saying... I love the lord JESUS christ and his father.. I know there is only one GOD and I love that... But I've come to feel that Gods words are his words but they were twisted to get all christians to follow this mold the church made for us.. I told them that if snakes were " The devil " why do GOD keep creating them...They were stunned I challenged them.. So I go on by saying God's the creator of everything (even snakes), The devil can't create anything only distroy... So if snakes were evil why are they still here.. I'm a 100% christian and go to church always.. But can't belive that these documents of GODS were past on through generation to generation and haven't been altured to sound more like something GOD would say in mortal eyes..Then I began to say that they were talking from fear.. Snakes above all other 100 times more dangerous animals.. Snakes got the bad name.. They say why do they kill.. I say these snakes can't kill humand ( no posion) ...What about the ones that can kill humans by bitting them " they say".. I say protection/ food.. Why do humans lock there doors, why do the we kill and eat other animals lower on the food chain... TO LIVE...Same as snakes.... After this they tell me they love me and leave...So what I am asking is what do you guys think????? [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img] " for those people who don't belive in GOD , I respect you so respect me when you reply"
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faze · #2 (**permalink**) 03-23-2002, 03:20 AM

right on rottguy!! let your g-parents have a piece of your mind!
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Countryboy · #3 (**permalink**) 03-23-2002, 03:28 AM

I know what they mean about the devil thing. I was walking throught the halls in my College and there is always these little religious pamplets on the tack board but one caught my attention it had SATAN in bug words across the top and had the pic of a viper on it. I just took it down and kept on walking. I live in the Bible belt so a lot of people teach there kids to associate snakes and the devil. I try to tell them different. You made some good comments I'm going to have to remember those for next time.
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Reticu-Lady · #4 (**permalink**) 03-23-2002, 03:30 AM

I can see their point if I try hard enough. I, too, consider myself a Christian (maybe not the best one, but....) I agree with you, God created these amazing animals. Think about it, what other animal eats with out any waste whatsoever, no skin, bones, fur, etc. Without these snakes, He knew we would be overrun with rodents (disease vecters). He has a Divine plan and all of us, sparrows, people and snakes included have a role to play in His plan. He has also given us a free will. It is your choice to like/appreciate/keep snakes. It is your grandparents choice not to. They should not be targets of your anger or frustration, just people who deserve your love, understanding and consideration. Next time they visit, cover the snake cages with sheets and give them both a huge hug and kiss. They would really like that.
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Reticu-Lady · #5 (**permalink**) 03-23-2002, 03:45 AM

Ok, I had to look it up. I have had a question about this for years. I would love to see some of your opinions. My Bible states: 'On your belly shall you crawl and dirt shall you eat all the days of your life....' God's statement to the serpent. Now snakes don't eat dirt, could He have meant something like an earthworm?
My point here is, the words can be interpreted in all sorts of ways. So, most people go with the snake thing. Is it because one person said snake instead of worm, or is that what He really meant?
I have many, many other similar questions throughout the Bible, but since this is concerning snakes, I thought it would be interesting to get some of your opinions.
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DianeOr · #6 (**permalink**) 03-23-2002, 04:12 AM

I have a 'Topical' bible and looked up 'serpent'. There are many times in the Bible where God used the serpent to make a point. Moses had a staft that he through down and it became a snake. He picked it back up by the tail as instructed by God and it turned back into a staft. This was to prove God was guiding Moses. In another instance the snake was used to heal those that looked upon it. (Moses again...He must not have been afraid of snakes! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img] ) But I think the Devil appearing in the 'form' of a serpent in the Garden was powerful and many people fear them because of that association and believe them to be evil. God could have used another animal and the thinking probably would be the same about that animal! One more thought, if God did not love them He would have destroyed them all by now.....Born again also. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
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Boaguy · #7 (**permalink**) 03-23-2002, 04:40 AM

I too am a christian, and most people think i am crazy,
but anyway i am a christian but that is one thing in the bible that bothers me sometimes.
maybe by saying you will eat dirt forever meaning mice,rats,gerbils,worms,fish (all not clean animals) but i think in the way he was was putting the devil as a snake (not snakes in general just him in the body of a snake) it says ("and we will trample on you forever&quot

so i dont know what it means , no one will ever know for sure it think anyway good to know theres other christians here [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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DianeOr · #8 (**permalink**) 03-23-2002, 05:29 AM

It also says 'serpents' are unfit for food, lucky for Taboo and all the other beloved ones! Nice you have knowledge. Grandma [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
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rottie · #9 (**permalink**) 03-23-2002, 05:33 AM

I though that in the bible it said not to judge....

I dont know the passage by hand but how can anyone pass judgement on anyone else.

It is still one of gods creatures... And you should love them all, with no judgement.

my .02

Rottie
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DianeOr · #10 (**permalink**) 03-23-2002, 05:42 AM

I couldn't agree more Rottie! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
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Shadrach · #11 (**permalink**) 03-23-2002, 05:43 AM

Rottie I see your point! Being a Christian also I get the same type of replys from people at work and family!
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cb76 · #12 (**permalink**) 03-23-2002, 09:23 AM

i was just reading stuff on this..... this is sooo cool!

back before jesus there were all these old religions n stuff. almost every single one of them thought the snake to be good! it sheds its skin coming out new again.

the bible is weird. not getting too into it (because its alot!!!!) for those who believe in angels there is a seraph who is an archangel names rapha-el (the shining one who heals)

originally known as labbi-el. the hebrew term rapha means "healer" or "doctor" the suffix "el" is sumerian meaning "brightness" or shining", akkadian "ilu" meaning "radiant one", babylonian "ellu" again meaning the "shining one"

rapha-el.

if you see these angels they are supposed to be shining. i have never seen one, i dont think.

anyways- snakes are the symbol of healing, being able to renew. even today the 2 serpents curl around the "caduceus" is our symbol of the medical profession.

it also says that the "ser" in serpent means guardian or guardian angel. see, snakes arent bad!

in christainity or what ever all this evil came about when the snake in the tree told eve to eat the apple- later thought to be or known to be sammael, the great serpent with 12 wings. he is accused to be the one to tempt eve.

sammael is sumerian, the sam means "poison"- if you put it together with the "el", he is the "bright and poisonous one" also knows as abbadon, beliel, and the devil.

this is why all of a sudden snakes are bad.

i believe in god, and god itself used snaked for good! you see, even in early herpetoculter a bad apple spoiled the bunch. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

if your into stuff like that you can read "angels, an endangered species" by malcolm godwin. i got it at barns and noble.

i figured i would babble about this. i was just reading it not too long ago. there is a whole lot more to the story, but that is just the jist.

later
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ratsickle · #13 (**permalink**) 03-23-2002, 04:52 PM

HI
Being I am an almost older person, I remember conversation I had with some of the older people (Grand Parents, Uncles,Aunts )who are gone now, There's alot of old wives tales superstition and out right fear in a lot of older people . I finally gave up on trying to change them and accepted them as they were. I hope they aren't putting to much pressure on you to loose your herp collection. When the older people were children their grandparents and parents filled there heads with junk about differences in people, cultures, relgion and such. Yes some snakes can make you sick if they bite you but that dosen't mean all snakes are bad. The bible uses all kinds of signs for evil, Blood is considered poison in some religions Ive seen people die for their religious beliefs and not accept a blood transfusion, Pork is considered tainted, and so on. Remember the average person who may have had some actual input on the bible proably didn't know the first thing about science , animals and what was medicine back then... We have all the information and resources that are available to each and everyone of us. Things would be done allittle different today I don't think anyone should sacrifice their children on an alter to affirm their faith.
The good news is the supreme creator gave us the ability to think and make decisons for our selves. And I thank my Creator for allowing to be the keeper of some very gentle animals, its a gift so please be sure they are cared for .
If I werer you I would try to avoid all conversation's about Herps, and try to enjoy what little time you may have left with them older people.
Good Luck doug
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Dragon · #14 (**permalink**) 03-23-2002, 05:10 PM

Well, I am a hard-core Darwinian, I believe completely in Evolution and not in creation. However, I can understand and respect your Grandparents (and others) beliefs and I would suspect that you would be no more able to convert them to seeing your point of view than you would be able to convert me to a practicing Christian.

All I can say is respect them, try not to argue or bait them, let them live their lives how they choose and you live yours how you choose. After all, isn't that what freedom means?

GL.

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roachpunk · #15 (**permalink**) 03-23-2002, 05:23 PM

know what really sux??!! I cant have snakes because my grandma lives with me. HUGE irrational fear. i mean., she cant even see them on TV! shes a very big christian and always saying snakes are evil and eat people, and blah blah....thanx anyways for the quotes. maybe thatll, ok wont cure her but notice they are NOT evil.
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Jack_Daniels · #16 (**permalink**) 03-24-2002, 03:31 AM

It's symbolism.. Lucifer is not your pet snake....

Genesis 1:24 - And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind" And it was so (25) God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, And God saw that it was GOOD...

1 Timothy 4:4 - For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is recieved with thanksgiving, (5) because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer...

So in other words, is all good... [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img]

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cb76 · #17 (**permalink**) 03-24-2002, 04:43 AM

let ne add that i believe in evolution too.

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pythonman#1 · #18 (**permalink**) 03-24-2002, 05:18 AM

I'm glad to see so many brothers and sisters of Christ JESUS who own snakes. They were created by the same GOD who created us. CB76 How can you belive in GOD and evolution? GOD created all things under the sun.
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puppy062000 · #19 (**permalink**) 03-24-2002, 05:55 PM

i've had this convo with my dad a hundred times at 2 in the morning. he believes blindly in everything the bible says. i believe whole heartedly in a god. i believe he's there, as a conscience, to keep us who believe from doing what we know is wrong. but as far as what's on earth, i believe in the evolution idea. the first life to ever have sparked in the early ocean was a miracle. started by something amazing, maybe god, maybe lightning. i dont know, but from then on, i believe it was all just natural selection, and evolution. also, i believe that there is something in all life forms that is unearthly. life itself, that spark of something that makes everything move and think, is a miracle itself. i believe that that is a part of god, while the clumps of meat and bones that we all move around in is just earthly evolution. nothing to do with god. so, i guess how i would say i believe it is, god started the spark of life, and continues to be the spark of life in everything, but had nothing to do with the bodies we all use while we're here. now, my belief of the bible is, that it was the greatest book of fiction ever written. ok, i dont wanna tick anyone off, this is just what i believe. i respect whatever anyone wants to believe, so please respect me. the only argument i can remember from me and dads convos is this, i say monkeys developed into people, ya know the theory, and dad says, if thats so, why are there still monkeys. shouldnt they have died when they evolved. and i say no, there is still a place for monkeys, look at lizards. they evolved into snakes, but there are still lizards. oh well, thats just how i see things. by the way, i'm a presbyterian, and haven't been to church since i was 12 or so. but i still love, believe in and talk to god regularly. no he doesnt talk back, but ya know.
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biff · #20 (**permalink**) 03-24-2002, 08:59 PM

I too am beleagured (I may have made that one up) by comments from fellow Christians...they just say why snakes?? The general fear of snakes comes from the fall of man in the Garden of Eden. While it is true the Lord cursed the serpent he did not specifically disassociate mankind from it. No, snakes are not the devil...that is purely non-Biblical...and I believe the Bible completely from cover to cover, including the cover!! And take it literally whenever possible. Although I have to admit, my snakes seem to have the most menacing looks on their faces...

Steve
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