Grandparents/snakes/ The devil....... - Page 3

Reticu-Lady · #41 (**permalink**) 03-26-2002, 10:54 AM

Bry, I think you're right!!!
Of course it was poodles He was reffering to. It all makes sense, that's why they are doomed to wearign those rediculous hairstyles!! No one would do that to a dog unless it was as punishment for the Original Sin. lol [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
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#42 (**permalink**) 03-26-2002, 03:30 PM

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>J Riley are you my dad? </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

Roooootttiie, I AM your father! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

It's just the common Canadian bond thing, I was just tryin to push some buttons with off the wall ideas. The second one was actually proposed by my 10th grade history teacher.

I personally am a science guy all the way. Creation was just a way to explain the unexplainable back in the days before science had advanced far enough. Really, how the heck would they know how "God" did anything? They just took a shot in the dark. I don't think it's a coincidence that the bible makes mention of a 24 hour day or a 7 day week. The Romans created the whole "modern" calendar thing.

Just Me makes a good case for evolution and creation together.

There's no denying evolution, it's been proven again, and again and again. Unlike the existence of "God". I have never been a fan of blind faith or the "because I said so" train of thought.
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RevMojo · #43 (**permalink**) 03-26-2002, 05:08 PM

Wow...a religious talk that hasn't broken down into name calling...astounding, especially considering the number of people involved.

And of course the good reverend has his opinion. It appears we are divided (with a few exceptions) into 2 major schools of thought. There are the Christians, and the IknowtheressomethingbutIcantquiteexplainit-ians. I personally fall into the second camp. The only trouble with it is it's lack of organization, which is also its charm. Why would god make so many different types of people and only one way to worship him. Or as I've said so many times "God spoke to me, and he told me He didn't exist" (if you watch the capitalization, it makes sense) God, or whatever you want to call him, brings himself to the people in whatever form they need. For some, a pantheon of heroes and fools would do, for some all it took was a fat dude under a tree, and other more stubborn peoples needed miracle after astounding miracle to be shown the way. I could go deeper, but the post isn't about my beliefs, it was about snakes and the devil.

Translated from Latin, Lucifer means "bringer of light" Take that how you may. In Voodoo culture, the snake is a powerful creature, because it is constantly reborn (shedding). The Kingsnake in particular holds especially powerful medicine, because of it's immunity to poison. So many other cultures held the snake in high regard in their religions. Fewer feel the opposite way. Obviously the Judeo-Christians, and if I remeber correctly, Norse mythology believed that at Raganarok (Armageddon, or whatever you want to call the end of the world) a serpent would either crush or eat (I cant remember) the world. All in all, I think it would make a great research project.

Regardless of what you believe, clearly none of US feel that the snake is the devil.
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Reticu-Lady · #44 (**permalink**) 03-26-2002, 08:05 PM

I wish it were all cut and dry, but then that might take all the fun out of interesting conversations such as this one. In my opinion, God has 'spoken' to me in a lot of ways. In the smile of a newborn baby while nursing, the rebirth of flowers, etc in Spring, in the kindness of strangers and the good feeling you get sometimes for no apparant reason. There are so many more, but these are a few off the top of my head. One of the most obvious to me is in a situation like rtb. So many people, so many ideas, so many opinions but we still get along so well. Tell me that God or some other Higher Power isn't in all of us to one extent or another. Maybe 'He' is just what each individual needs Him to be.

Well, whatever it turns out is the correct answer (and I think it's all of them) I still love all my 'little devils.' [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
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Bry · #45 (**permalink**) 03-26-2002, 08:24 PM

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> Bry, I think you're right!!!
Of course it was poodles He was reffering to. It all makes sense, that's why they are doomed to wearign those rediculous hairstyles!! No one would do that to a dog unless it was as punishment for the Original Sin. lol [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

Just-Me, I'm glad we see eye to eye on this! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img]

Bry
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captainmorgan · #46 (**permalink**) 03-26-2002, 08:46 PM

reALLY?? I always thought mice and rats were the devil....
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Karen · #47 (**permalink**) 03-26-2002, 11:36 PM

I haven't read this whole thread,cuz frankly it's too much to skim through. In response to rottyguys first post though I have to say this.... I believe in just about every religion you have your "ists" which take their religion to the extreme and twist it some. I'm Christian and was raised in a Baptist Church and we love snakes in my family. Growing up in a Southern Baptist Church I havent encountered anyone who thiks they are evil and devilish.
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Highlander_77 · #48 (**permalink**) 03-27-2002, 07:27 AM

In response to all those "contradictions" that rottie posted, there are two things that I, as a practicing Christian, feel the need to point out.

1) Context. If you take verses from the Bible out of context you can make it say anything you want. But that's not how it's intended to be read.

2) English is *not* the original language of the Bible. It was originally written in Hebrew, Aramaic, & Greek. *All* other translations have errors and inaccuracies, sometimes cause by simple poor translation, sometimes by the limitations of the language it was being translated into (especially English), and sometimes an *unwillingness* on the part of the translators to accurately translate something that they didn't like. For example, the "Thou shalt not kill" thing...in the original language, what it actually says is closer to "Thou shalt not *murder*"...however killing in war, for example. or in self defense, is never forbidden in the Bible.

But the context issue is the most important thing...believe me, though I don't have time to go through each of those contradictions point by point, I've looked at enough of them before to know that there are *no* true contradictions in the Bible...it only appears that way until you actually get the full picture of what's being said in any given passage. Just wanted to throw my $0.02 in, that is all [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] .

_________________
" 'Meltdown.' It's one of those annoying 'buzzwords'.
We prefer to think of it as an 'unrequested fission surplus'." C. Montgomery Burns

cb76 · #49 (**permalink**) 03-27-2002, 08:20 AM

a friend gave me something very interesting. i only watched the begining, but it does make sense.

this is a 2 video set called "CREATION IN SYMPHONY: THE MODEL"
hosted by Carl Baugh, PhD.

he uses science to explain the bible and he makes it all work out (so far)
he also dicusses that gods time is not like our time. our billion years is a moment in the time of the creator.

pretty neat. maybe if you're interested enough, check it out. library or buy it. really neat!
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Dr.Oviparous · #50 (**permalink**) 03-27-2002, 10:22 AM

I was raised without any religion. I was very lucky to have the kind of parents I had when I was groing up, almost all my friends in my childhood had divorced, or "should be divorced" parents. I never once saw my parents argue, neither did my sister, to the best of my knoledge, it just didn't happen. anyway, this is where I'm goin' with this, all of our family all live in utah, and are all mormon except my parents, my sister, and me. both sides mom, and dad are mormon. my father's father is a bishop. to make a long story short, my grandfather on my dad's side did somethings he shouldn't have (I'll spare the details). my father caught him in the act. he was 19 at the time, and just married my mother. when my father went to the rest of his family for help, they called him a liar. they disowned us, and have not made much contact since, I don't really know them to this day. for this reason my sister and I were never taught any religion. we had the model family growing up, and my sister and I are both very well adjusted people, she is and arcitect ( I don't knpw how to spell!!) and I work two full time jobs (aircraft mechanic, and body piercer). I don't need the two jobs, I just love both of them, so I keep both. anyway what I'm getting at, is kids, IN MY OPINION, and people in general don't have to have religion in their lives to be good high quality individuals [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] . -Juggalo
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Jack_Daniels · #51 (**permalink**) 04-02-2002, 05:39 AM

Wow, this thread really took off while I've been gone..

Rottie, thanx for those verses, they were interesting..

Can I ask you, did you find those verses through studying the books of the bible they were included in? or from a web site?... Because most are jumping over large amounts of information that through using "context clues" would clear up the confusion that would result from reading those at "face value"

We're in life... We're alive.. Celebrate always.. "For tomorrow we die".. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img]
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rottie · #52 (**permalink**) 04-02-2002, 06:03 AM

Well those quotes were from a website... but I also did a study in school with a group of people and found different ones... i cant remember off of the top of my head... but what I meant is still there.. As for the comments on taking it out of context ... you really cant say that..unless you are the one that has written it.. you see it one way and I may see it another and someone else might see it another way...I personally dont believe in the quotes that I posted, but merely posted them for discussion purposes only..

Your opinion is what matters .. Everyone is different and will have different views.. Some people get a kick out of feeding rats to there snake .. I personally dont but hey everyone has their own thing right? Whether you are a hardcore believer or a non believer I love you all the same.

I respect everyone even though I dont respect some descisions that people make. For people to jump up and say something to them isnt right unless they asked for there opinion.

Please remember people ... When someone asks for help or an opinion do the best you can to put yourself into their shoes ... be empathetic and you will see where they are coming from and why they made their choices the way they did.

I think that we should have more discussions like this ... You can see how deep people actually are instead of exteriors.

rottie
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Jack_Daniels · #53 (**permalink**) 04-03-2002, 04:38 AM

Really, I dont know how to say it.. so I'll just say it.. We're alive.. Life.. think about it...

I dont shove anything down peoples throat because I become more #$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^& off and viscious than any retic or croc that youve ever met, when that happens to me.... understandably

The thing I would project from myself,... would be, we are alive, we actually have knowledge and awareness... right now.. we're, well some of us, are awake, right NOW!!...

The ones that truly see the posibilities in that, dont take it for granted, and dont see it as this normal existance.. We have the ability to create, endless possibilities... yet where do these ideas come from?.. If we controlled our own creative capabilities, would "writers block" ever have come about? etc??

What Im saying is... "no man enjoys the feast, more than the one that suffers from the strongest hunger pains...".... We're alive, dont take it for granted... Some people will read this and not have a clue of what Im saying...

"A wicked and adulterous generation, asks for a sign".... again, is life and awarness not enough? I mean, we're literally alive... alive....think about it...awake and alive! How wild is that?

What Ive said isnt meant to save... Its not my place to save.. Its rather something trivial for the "philosipher' in you to question... each draws his or her own conclusions... thank God..

What Im trying to project is, just what Ive learned... I've existed, and thought I knew everything... I swore to God I knew everything and it wasnt anything special...life is, what it is..get up,... go to work... make your money and go to sleep after you spend it... amen...

Then I caught on to the fact that nothing comes from death... death creates nothing... This life Im in is a question... Do I want it...or do I want to sleep.?... Can I be me, or am I trying to be someone?? Do I envy myself, or the dood on mTV?... Is money actually freedom, or is it literally paper stained with green ink??? Reality's a trip... Not everyone can handle it..

The people that have seen what I have, will understand what Im saying... The ones that are meant to understand it, will be intrigued by what Ive said....the ones that will sleep, wont understand... You decide your own level of involvment... So like I said... This God is very much real... see "Him" if you desire, or dont... Regardless I can point the way, not save...

God bless you all.. and I wish you all the best in LIFE...
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KLG · #54 (**permalink**) 04-03-2002, 04:55 AM

I'm sure this point has been made somewhere along the thread, but I figured I'd go ahead & add my $.02...

I come from a devoutly religious fundamental Southern Baptist family who mostly feel that my house is a den of evil because I keep so many herps. While I'm not about to stretch all of this into a religious discussion, my comeback to them is & has always been "If snakes/serpents are so evil, then how did they make it onto Noah's Ark in the first place? If they're entities of Satan as opposed to just animals (I know, they're not JUST animals, they're fabulous, magnificent beings, and isn't that why we're at this site in the first place?), then why was any attempt made to save them."

I realize there are a billion different directions in which you could go with that argument, but it usually stops my folks dead in their tracks whenever the subject comes up.

Best of luck to you!

KLG
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rottie · #55 (**permalink**) 04-03-2002, 07:25 AM

See Jack thats what Im talkin about .... You never see someones true self come out unless there is a conversation like this...You sound like me .... I have said the exact same things that you just said... ( my girlfriend to verify) I just felt like I was reading my own words....

Way to speak it brother ....!!!

Very good post.... I am truly impressed.

rottie
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JC86 · #56 (**permalink**) 04-10-2002, 06:09 AM

Ok this may be old but I have to comment.

I am a strong Christian, active in the college church here, all that good stuff.

First, here is the arguement for those very conservative people who think herps are evil.

1) The serpent that the devil took form to was cursed. *Only* that serpent. Snakes paid the price by having to travel on their belly...but they aren't 'evil .' Woman was cursed to have painful childbirth because of her sin. However that by no means that women are evil (no comments by the shovanists please). So if someone states that snakes are evil, then you can reply that by that same train of thought so are women.

2) There are a lot of good Chrisitans who own reptiles. Heck one of my church officials does. I've yet to see a Christian suffer at the hands (well, body=P) of a snake. Heck the only reason I was able to get my Rainbow Boa was via prayer ::is still not sure where the money came from:: but..PRAISE THE LORD! my BRB is a beauty! =D

Also, please don't go about saying how 'contradictory' the bible is. It is not. First of all, like someone else said, you have to take it in conext. Spouting out verses means nothing.

For instance: Comparing "God said that thou shall not kill" contractics the Jewish law reguarding the death sentance. When someone does kill, or break any other commandment, there is a price to pay.(in the old testament, Jesus' death nulifies that now) Depending on what you did, this price could be your life. That's like saying that since we aren't allowed by law to walk around with assault weapons in America, the Secret Service shouldn't be allowed to have them. Or saying that since it's illegal to speed, ambulances shouldn't be able to go over the speed limit. Stuff like that.

Also, when in the New Testament talks war or sword or violence or stuff, it's the war against sin. You know what the word (bible) is for Christians? It's our sword. Does that make us violent?

Finally, I'd just like to point out that the bible is not ment for unsaved/unbelievers. The only part that was written for them was the gospel. God did not mean for the unbelievers to see or understand our history, and the New Testament was written for the early chruch. So to you Christians out there, do not be at all suprised that unbelievers do not understand something in the old testament, or just can't see the light. The old testament is not ment to be seen until you are saved.

On a happier note, everybody read John! =p It's a great gospel that I just got through, and is prolly the easiest of them all to understand. No matter what you believe you have to love the message of hope that it brings.

~Scott

I'm not at all trying to insult not Christians. These beliefs are mine and 'basicly' those of the Christian faith. If you would like to discuss this at anytime my e-mail is JC86@aol.com.
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Jack_Daniels · #57 (**permalink**) 04-11-2002, 12:54 AM

Im glad you brought up the point of the "unsaved" not being able to truly understand what the bible is 'speaking' without the 'interpretation' of the Holy Spirit... in saying that, I leave myself wide open to criticizm, but hindsight being 20/20, its the truth... its easier to see the past, as opposed to the future...

My uncle stumped me one time.. he said, tell me what this means.. "The word, is not the word, without the word"... I had no clue

Maybe if he had written it out like "The word, is not the Word, without the Word".. I would have understood it quicker... regardless I got the point when I was supposed to get it..

You cant be a black belt, without first learning the basics and taking it step by step... The "art" of knowing this God that is real to the point of not being comprehendable, is no different..

Here's one that will be able to be related to... you cant pick up and handle a cobra the first time you've ever seen a snake... you have to start off with the "milk" before you can handle the "heavy meat".....

Later.... JD
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#58 (**permalink**) 04-11-2002, 11:23 PM

You can tell your grand parents (if it isnt too late and that you wont read this anyway) even the pope says that in general the geneisus is mainly made to explain things and that it is not true. I personly agree with that guy who said something about god.... with the lightning in the ocean.... and how it was all amazing. well anyway.

good points when you were talking to them though.

THIS IS WHAT 4 YEARS OF CATHOLIC SCHOOLS GET YOU?!?!?! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
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Reticu-Lady · #59 (**permalink**) 04-13-2002, 08:08 PM

Catholic school, huh? You, too? Same here. St Elizabeth elementary and Bishop Dunne for a year afterward. Anyway, unfortunatly, I learned little if any at the Catholic schools because of the method of teaching. I am the type that rebels against ANYTHING 'stuffed down my throat.' That, and we had a real idiotic priest there as well, but more on him in a whole different sort of thread lol.
Anyway, the majority of the 'religion' I know or have tried to learned is stuff that I later found to be an interesting question and have either looked up, asked several people about (I have a whole collection of people to ask, I mentioned my dads are into religion, but I forgot to mention my Jewish Aunt and Uncle lol)I have taken my religion research along the same lines as my reptile studies and the research I have done in mammalian genetics, etc. In other words, I ask questions - lots and lots of them (ask anyone here). I am not too terribly afraid to even ask the weird, stupid or off the wall questions. I read books, not just the Bible, but books on others' interpretations of the Bible. Then I think it through and make it work for me so to speak.
The Bible is a great source of info, almost too much info. The best thing I have found is to get as many different opinions as possible, then see how it all correlates with the way I was rasied, my opinions and feelings, and the way I truly feel inside, my deepest most personal feelings. I still think God (or Whomever) isn't just one individual in which we are all to believe, but someone with as many facets to His/Her personality as all of us have to each of our own personalities. Obviously, I did not learn this from Catholic school.
(What I did learn at Catholic school, I best not mention here - lol) [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img] [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img]
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XzyluM · #60 (**permalink**) 04-13-2002, 10:47 PM

Well, just found this forum, so great! I see the point of view from both, you and your grandparents. There is a lot some people seem to not recognize about the bible. I will state this as I am a believer in God and I respect those who don't belive in him, even though I don't like to hear people talking about not believing in God and whatnot. The bible has been changed by many Kings to their liking from the very first version. The bible is known to not be completely accurate, but similar to God's words. Anyway, your grandparents are probably on a different version of snakes than you are. I imagine you see snakes as friendly pets, fun to have, and most of all beautiful reptiles. Your grandparents might be convinced by how snakes are known to be used in rituals by witches ( are those who try to cast spells and all that jibbity jabble) and demonic cults that use them for cult rituals and sacrifices to Satan. I wouldn't let your grandparent's view affect your love for the reptiles. You are a Christian, you believe in God, and you are right on track. Having to deal with family problems based on their opinions and views in something a lot of us have to deal with. I wouldn't give up something I love because my grandparents have a different view. Just my $.02.
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