Grandparents/snakes/ The devil.......

That's the reason I gave up Catholicism. I believe in a god of some kind and I may even believe in Jesus but the Bible is so #$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^& contradictory why should I believe a word it says? Do what makes you happy. If you're not hurting anyone, God will love you.
[addsig]

And all this "god said this" and "god said that". Has anyone ever heard from God in the past couple of milleniums? I mean, the bible hasn't exactly been amended all that recently. Kinda makes ya wonder.......
[addsig]

[cb76]

likie i said. i do believe in god, why not- gives me something to look foward to.
either way, i will lead a good life (i hope)

if i werent soooo into music i would definitly be in the science field. there are so many things i am interested in.

check this out- back in the day when people thought the earth was flat, and all things had some supernatural meaning are explained by SCIENCE! things are waaaaay different now than back then.

so what, i decide to believe. it doesnt matter that i believe in evolution or not. one thing that i seriously disagree with is all of a sudden there were 2 humans here and we all decended from them. i dont know- its just me. i have some real church fanatic friends whom i have discussions with- like puppy said- at 2-3 am. i still believe the evidence that i see. there is no way that you cannot say there is evolution! its still happening right in from of our eyes!!!!!!

i believe that "god" just did it all.

like i said before- you'll lead a good life, i hope every one does, whether its allah, god, budha, the tree gods, etc.....

this is a very hard question if you think about it.
my friend asks me if i believe, i say yeah and give her my answere wich i think its more honest. but i say the evoltution thing- she snaps back saying there is no proof! i am still dumbfounded by that response. i say where is her proof- she says the bible.

i dont go to church often either. i find most of the ones i have been to are hipocrtitical when it comes to dealing with people.

waaaay of topic. my mind, my life, my decision. i believe it all. science, evolution, mathematics, art, love, life- why not say god did it all.

i also believe the universe as we know it is ever expanding, i believe that there is some form of life out there on the thousands of planets that we can see!!! whether or not we were visted, thats another topic. on this topic, i believe the big bang too. whether or not it happened that way- who knows, but at least they are looking! trying to find out!!

later
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[Ophiophagus-hannah]

How many different versions of the bible are there? So many that I think it's been changed so much we'll never know what was added or taken away. Some say religion is something conjured up by man to keep everybody in check. Without religion there would be no order in this world. Frankly, in my opinion, a higher power definitely made us and this universe up. Scientists are just finding out how small our galaxy really is compared to what is out there. Soon I believe we will make contact with something out there. Everyone has there own right to believe whom their higher power is.
[addsig]

[rottie]

I agree with Ophiophagus-hannah ... A christian believes in "God", Monks believe in "Budda", Muslims believe in "Allah".... All of these are just labels. Whos God is the right God?
I have questioned this myself being raised Catholic. But I do not agree with some of the things that are in the bible. Actually if you really get into the bible you will see that it contradics itself quite often.
Now lets go to other religions... You will watch tv as a believer of a "faith" and see other people like say Mayas worshipping a Sun God with its teachings totally different than say the Bible... You may look at that and say what a mislead culture.. But I dont see that.

I often wonder if the bible was like the works of shakespeare of its time... What if it is just a story?? Every culture has one and every cultures religion is different.

I personally believe in a higher power .. but I refuse to label it... I will not call it God, or Budda I just refer to it as a higher power. Whether it be God,Budda,Allah and my favorite Mother Earth.
I believe that there are things that you cant explain but I also beleive that to just say that it was gods actions is not entirely true.

I believe in something creating the universe .. but I also believe in evolution.

Why does everything have to be one or the other ?

I try to focus now on the wonderful things that the higher power would want me to respect.. Whether it be Mother Earth thanking me for taking care of her .. or a god seeing that I am helping out. I take what happens now not what happened before or what was written 4000 years ago...

Just my .02

Thanks,
Rottie
[addsig]

[biff]

One of the major diffs in "religions" is the book, or standard they use...this is where Christianity rises above all others. In the AV (1611) and it's predecessors, while men were busy thinking the world was flat, the existent Bibles clearly reveal the earth as a circle, while also giving a consice idea of gravity & the water cycle(which wasn't understood until sometime later). Just a small sample of the wonders contained in "the Book".

Steve
[addsig]

[Dr.Oviparous]

"BOBBY BUCHETT!!!! LITTLE GIRLS ARE THE DEVIL!" -MOMMA
[addsig]

[Jack_Daniels]

Can I get a few scriptures that contradict each other?

As far as the "created" vs. "evolutions"... why not both at the same time?

I dont believe in evolution so much as I believe in "adaptation to change".. Our environment is in a constant change... our minds are in a constant change... why not our bodies as well?

I know this thing called life, that's stumbled upon me is something a little to great, and comes with too much potential for me to just "exist" through it.. I read a paragraph by a guy ranting on about all kinds of topics.. included was his thought that if you just 'exist' through life, you're a clay robot... not until you start making impressions upon things, and acting out, creating etc, do you truly start to live.. I agree, if all you do is respond, then you're environment is controling you... which in todays world, is fatal at best..

Different religions have more in common than not.. "There is but one mediator between man and God, his name Christ Jesus( I dont know the verse number)"... one savior.. but we're all prophets...everyone regardless of label, is a part of the included "whole"..

I often think, we all get a piece of shared truth in what we're coming into, and a hidden piece as well.. Which is why its as critical as it is for everyone to get up and start saying the things they only let their mind see when they're alone, locked in their rooms, where noone will or can judge.. more often than not, the reason we're afraid to say them is because they're alot more personal, and emotionally truthful than "how bout them cowboys"...

So not to get too preachy.. but I'll tell you God is very much real, this I know.. Why "He" choses to hide behind a wall of B.S. called "todays world", is beyond me...

"An eye for an eye, leaves the whole world blind" - Ghandi

Besides, the cowboys suck...Steelers rule! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img]
[addsig]

[Dr.Oviparous]

awh man, this isn't going to change into another one of those posts is it? -Juggalo
[addsig]

[Jack_Daniels]

I know, being serious sucks.. I bought my first marley cd thinking it was just a really big cigarette... I had not clue what I was in for..
[addsig]

[rottie]

Should we kill?

Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill."
Leviticus 24:17 "And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death."

vs.

Exodus 32:27 "Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, . . . and slay every man his brother, . . . companion, . . . neighbor."
I Samuel 6:19 " . . . and the people lamented because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."
I Samuel 15:2,3,7,8 "Thus saith the Lord . . . Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and #$%^&#$%^&#$%^&. . . . And Saul smote the Amalekites . . . and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."
Numbers 15:36 "And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."
Hosea 13:16 "they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with children shall be ripped up."


Should we tell lies?

Exodus 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness."
Proverbs 12:22 "Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord."

vs.

I Kings 22:23 "The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee."
II Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."
Also, compare Joshua 2:4-6 with James 2:25.

Should we steal?

Exodus 20:15 "Thou shalt not steal."
Leviticus 19:13 "Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, neither rob him."

vs.

Exodus 3:22 "And ye shall spoil the Egyptians."
Exodus 12:35-36 "And they spoiled [plundered, NRSV] the Egyptians."
Luke 19:29-34 "[Jesus] sent two of his disciples, Saying, Go ye into the village . . . ye shall find a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and bring him hither. And if any man ask you, Why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because the Lord hath need of him. . . . And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt? And they said, The Lord hath need of him."
I was taught as a child that when you take something without asking for it, that is stealing.

Shall we keep the sabbath?

Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy."
Exodus 31:15 "Whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."
Numbers 15:32,36 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. . . . And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."

vs.

Isaiah 1:13 "The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity."
John 5:16 "And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day."
Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy-day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days."

Shall we make graven images?

Exodus 20:4 "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven . . . earth . . . water."
Leviticus 26:1 "Ye shall make ye no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone."
Deuteronomy 27:15 "Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image."

vs.

Exodus 25:18 "And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them."
I Kings 7:15,16,23,25 "For he [Solomon] cast two pillars of brass . . . and two chapiters of molten brass . . . And he made a molten sea . . . it stood upon twelve oxen . . . [and so on]"

Are we saved through works?

Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith . . . not of works."
Romans 3:20,28 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight."
Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ."

vs.

James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
Matthew 19:16-21 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he [Jesus] said unto him . . . keep the commandments. . . . The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven."
The common defense here is that "we are saved by faith and works." But Paul said "not of works."

Should good works be seen?

Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works."
I Peter 2:12 "Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that . . . they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation."

vs.

Matthew 6:1-4 "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them . . . that thine alms may be in secret."
Matthew 23:3,5 "Do not ye after their [Pharisees'] works. . . . all their works they do for to be seen of men."

Should we own slaves?

Leviticus 25:45-46 "Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, . . . and they shall be your possession . . . they shall be your bondmen forever."
Genesis 9:25 "And he [Noah] said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren."
Exodus 21:2,7 "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. . . . And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the manservants do."
Joel 3:8 "And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the Lord hath spoken it."
Luke 12:47,48 [Jesus speaking] "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes."
Colossians 3:22 "Servants, obey in all things your masters."

vs.

Isaiah 58:6 "Undo the heavy burdens . . . let the oppressed go free, . . . break every yoke."
Matthew 23:10 "Neither be ye called Masters: for one is your Master, even Christ."


Does God change his mind?

Malachi 3:6 "For I am the Lord; I change not."
Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent."
Ezekiel 24:14 "I the Lord have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent."
James 1:17 " . . . the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."

vs.

Exodus 32:14 "And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."
Genesis 6:6,7 "And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth . . . And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth . . . for it repenteth me that I have made him."
Jonah 3:10 ". . . and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."
See also II Kings 20:1-7, Numbers 16:20-35, Numbers 16:44-50.
See Genesis 18:23-33, where Abraham gets God to change his mind about the minimum number of righteous people in Sodom required to avoid destruction, bargaining down from fifty to ten. (An omniscient God must have known that he was playing with Abraham's hopes for mercy--he destroyed the city anyway.)

Are we punished for our parents' sins?

Exodus 20:5 "For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." (Repeated in Deuteronomy 5:9)
Exodus 34:6-7 " . . . The Lord God, merciful and gracious, . . . that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation."
I Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, . . ."

vs.

Ezekiel 18:20 "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father."
Deuteronomy 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

Is God good or evil?

Psalm 145:9 "The Lord is good to all."
Deuteronomy 32:4 "a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

vs.

Isaiah 45:7 "I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things." See "Out of Context" for more on Isaiah 45:7.
Lamentations 3:38 "Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?"
Jeremiah 18:11 "Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you."
Ezekiel 20:25,26 "I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live. And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord."

Does God tempt people?

James 1:13 "Let no man say . . . I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."

vs.

Genesis 22:1 "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham."

Is God peaceable?

Romans 15:33 "The God of peace."
Isaiah 2:4 ". . . and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

vs.

Exodus 15:3 "The Lord is a man of war."
Joel 3:9-10 "Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong."

Was Jesus peaceable?

John 14:27 "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you."
Acts 10:36 "The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ."
Luke 2:14 " . . . on earth peace, good will toward men."

vs.

Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."
Luke 22:36 "Then said he unto them, . . . he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

Was Jesus trustworthy?

John 8:14 "Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true."

vs.

John 5:31 "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."
"Record" and "witness" in the above verses are the same Greek word (martyria).

Shall we call people names?

Matthew 5:22 "Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire." [Jesus speaking]

vs.

Matthew 23:17 "Ye fools and blind." [Jesus speaking]
Psalm 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."

Has anyone seen God?

John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time."
Exodus 33:20 "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live."
John 6:46 "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God [Jesus], he hath seen the Father."
I John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time."

vs.

Genesis 32:30 "For I have seen God face to face."
Exodus 33:11 "And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend."
Isaiah 6:1 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple."
Job 42:5 "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee."

How many Gods are there?

Deuteronomy 6:4 "The Lord our God is one Lord."

vs.

Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image."
Genesis 3:22 "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil."
I John 5:7 "And there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
It does no good to claim that "Let us" is the magisterial "we." Such usage implies inclusivity of all authorities under a king's leadership. Invoking the Trinity solves nothing because such an idea is more contradictory than the problem it attempts to solve.

Are we all sinners?

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."
Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."
Psalm 14:3 "There is none that doeth good, no, not one."

vs.

Job 1:1 "There was a man . . . who name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright."
Genesis 7:1 "And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation."
Luke 1:6 "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."

How old was Ahaziah?

II Kings 8:26 "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign."

vs.

II Chronicles 22:2 "Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign."

Should we swear an oath?

Numbers 30:2 "If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath . . . he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth."
Genesis 21:22-24,31 " . . . swear unto me here by God that thou wilt not deal falsely with me . . . And Abraham said, I will swear. . . . Wherefore he called that place Beersheba ["well of the oath"]; because there they sware both of them."
Hebrews 6:13-17 "For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself . . . for men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife. Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath."
See also Genesis 22:15-19, Genesis 31:53, and Judges 11:30-39.

vs.

Matthew 5:34-37 "But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven . . . nor by the earth . . . . Neither shalt thou swear by thy head . . . . But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."
James 5:12 ". . . swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation."

When was Jesus crucified?

Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour, and they crucified him."

vs.

John 19:14-15 "And about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out . . . crucify him."
It is an ad hoc defense to claim that there are two methods of reckoning time here. It has never been shown that this is the case.

Shall we obey the law?

I Peter 2:13 "Submit yourself to every ordinance of man . . . to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors."
Matthew 22:21 "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's." See also Romans 13:1,7 and Titus 3:1.

vs.

Acts 5:29 "We ought to obey God rather then men."

How many animals on the ark?

Genesis 6:19 "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark."
Genesis 7:8-9 "Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah."
Genesis 7:15 "And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life."

vs.

Genesis 7:2 "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female."

Were women and men created equal?

Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

vs.

Genesis 2:18,23 "And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. . . . And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

Were trees created before humans?

Genesis 1:12-31 "And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: . . . And the evening and the morning were the third day. . . . And God said, Let us make man in our image . . . And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

vs.

Genesis 2:5-9 "And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. .Ê.ÊAnd the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground . . . And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food."

Did Michal have children?

II Samuel 6:23 "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death."

vs.

II Samuel 21:8 "But the king took the two sons of Rizpah . . . and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul."

How many stalls did Solomon have?

I Kings 4:26 "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen."

vs.

II Chronicles 9:25 "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen."

Did Paul's men hear a voice?

Acts 9:7 "And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man."

vs.

Acts 22:9 "And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me."


Is God omnipotent?

Jeremiah 32:27 "Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there anything too hard for me?
Matthew 19:26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

vs.

Judges 1:19 "And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

Does God live in light?

I Timothy 6:15-16 " . . . the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach . . ."
James 1:17 " . . . the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."
John 12:35 "Then Jesus saith unto them, . . . he that walketh in darkness knoweth not wither he goeth."
Job 18:18 "He [the wicked] shall be driven from light into darkness, and chased out of the world."
Daniel 2:22 "He [God] knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him." See also Psalm 143:3, II Corinthians 6:14, and Hebrews 12:18-22.

vs.

I Kings 8:12 "Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness." (Repeated in II Chronicles 6:1)
II Samuel 22:12 "And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies."
Psalm 18:11 "He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies."
Psalm 97:1-2 "The Lord reigneth; let the earth rejoice . . . clouds and darkness are round about him."

Does God accept human sacrifice?

Deuteronomy 12:31 "Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God: for every abomination to the Lord, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods."

vs.

Genesis 22:2 "And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of."
Exodus 22:29 "For thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors; the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me."
Judges 11:30-39 "And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hand, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the Lord's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering. So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon . . . and the Lord delivered them into his hands. . . . And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: . . . And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed."
II Samuel 21:8-14 "But the king [David] took the two sons of Rizpah . . . and the five sons of Michal . . . and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the Lord: and they fell all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest . . . And after that God was intreated for the land."
Hebrews 10:10-12 " . . . we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ . . . But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God."
I Corinthians 5:7 " . . . For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us."

Who was Joseph's father?

Matthew 1:16 "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus."

vs.

Luke 3:23 "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli."

[addsig]

[hisba]

I didn't read any of the replies yet, but I just wanted to say that some people will
not open their minds at all! So don't get too discouraged, just know you tried but sometimes
the fights aren't worth it. When I was 15 and visiting my grandparents.. who are born
again christians and very religious, we were talking about me wanting to get a cat
when I moved out on my own.. my grandpa went into a whole speal about how animals
don't have souls (I guess humans aren't animals?)... I could not disuade him in any way...
he even had pet cats but still said they are "empty vessels worth nothing"... We got into a
big fight about this which concluded with him telling me that I was going to go to #$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^&
because I believed animals have a soul. My grandpa is a nice man, I love him very much,
and in most cases he has a very good heart, but this is just something neither one of us
would budge on and I had to give up the conversation. (btw, I do not believe in "God" or
a higher power, but I respect other people's right to believe and that was not why my
grandpa said I was destined for fire and brimstone.. just fyi... although I'm sure they
still think I'm going there lol)
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The beauty of contradiction is it allows for interpretation, which basically means you can bend the words to suit your needs. Which is what people have been doing with the bible for as long as it has been around.


Who here has read the bible from start to finish? WHEN did you do this, what age? I'll bet you dollars to donuts your parents told you snakes were bad before you read that passage in the bible, so the seed was already laid, and a reinforcement from a Bible and Bammo! Snakes are evil.

People need religion, they need to think there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, that there is more to existence that this life on earth. If you're not going to be judged at the end of your "life" what is there to keep you in check? Way, way way back in history, the church vied with the government for control of the people. The church made the laws. You think maybe the bible has been changed (dare I say evolved!?!?) since the very first writing?

As you can probably guess, I'm not a devoutly religious person. I don't mind if other people choose to have faith in something, but don't force it on others if they're not interested. That is the biggest problem I see with religion, everyone feels obligated to spread it. Maybe, just maybe, there are people out that that don't care if they're going to #$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^& b/c they are doing <fill in the blank>, because maybe they don't believe in #$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^&. If it's really that good, people will catch on, they don't need you ramming it down their throats.
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[Reticu-Lady]

Ok, may I throw a weird twist into the Creation vs Evolution here? I believe in both. Here's why (quickly, I am supposed to be gettgn ready to go to work).
Since God created everything in 6 days, the 7th being the day He rested, and the concept of a 24 hour day was not thought up intill centuries or millienia later, how do we know that in the 'day' God created light, animals, people, etc wasn't actually centuries long. I wonder if the less evolved man was Him in the process of creating Man as we know him/her. If a century is but a day to God (or Whomever), then evolution is possible, and in my opinion, highly likley.
Somthing else I have always noticed. Hove you ever compared religions, ie Catholism, Buddhism, Native American Indian, Roman and Greek Mythology? Ever wonder about the parallels? They are all basically saying the same thing but in entirely different ways. The Indians believe in the spirits of every thing (living or inanimate), Mythology discusses Gods/Goddesses, etc. In almost every single 'different' religion/belief (not all, but most) at one time or another a God impregnates a woman and produces a son. Two examples off the top of my head are Jesus and Hercules. Both of which were capable of dings things that normal mortals couldn't (miracles or acts of extreme strength.) Both were kind and loving, both were raised by their human parents and eventually, both went back to Heaven or Atlantis (I think that's where they lived) to be with his Father.
I don't know, maybe I am weird or reading too much into things, but I think there's a connection there somewhere.
(My thoughts on all this drive both my dad and my Father-in-law nuts, Dad is a Jesuit College graduate who teaches religion theory to Catholic priests and my FIL is an ordained Baptist minister) lol
Oh yeah, not to be rude, but I read somewhere that someone said Monks were Buddists, yes some are, but there are a bunch of Catholic Monks, too. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] I love where this is going, y'all keep posting, I love seeing what everyone belives.
[addsig]

I think earth and all the living organisms is an alien experiment.

Or perhaps no one actually exists but you. Maybe everything else is just stuff that you imagine and you actually "exist" in a void with no physical body only an intelligence.


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[morti]

I have been watching this thread with intrest as this is the kind of thing that could get out of hand rather quickly. I want to thank each of you for having respected each others oppinions on this matter and not stooping to arguing and namecalling. This just proves yet again that although we come from diverse backgrounds and belief sets, we are a community.

Speaking of suggested reading, there is a book out there called "Silicon Snake Oil" that is all about the dinamics of the online community (and the idea of community in general). Neat book if you are intrested in such things.
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[rottie]

J Riley are you my dad? My dad thinks the same thing... He thinks that we are like an antfarm to aliens... just a project to see if they could create and sustain life on another planet .. and they come to checkup on us sometimes....

haha

lmao

...its topics like this that I could "debate" for hours..

I like everyones opinion so far .. It show that people are actually different and they all dont think in the same way... Neat!

rottie
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[biff]

Just remember, you can make the Bible say anything you want by taking verses out of context or not applying a little common sense to the passages in ??

Steve
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[Dragon]

Can any of you religious buffs tell me the best way to tempt a 5" baboon spider to eat something?

Thanks [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] (And don't dare suggest it, I've already tried praying!) [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
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[Bry]

Personally, the evolution thing makes more sense to me. But I don't see why there couldn't have been creation. Maybe the creation occurred, and then after that everything evolved from that point. Like Just-Me said, the whole idea of God resting on the 7th day actually came long before we came up with any idea of 24-hour days. Maybe God's measurement of time is different than ours. Like he's still resting on his 7th day just watching evolution unfold. Not to depress or belittle anyone, but maybe there isn't a higher power at all? Kind of like we're all just mere mortals that are nothing more than worm food once we're dead? Just a few thoughts I'm throwing out here. I do believe there is a God or some sort of higher power, but it's just something I've wondered. As for the snake thing, where it says in the Bible that God condemned Satan to be a "lower creature". However I don't think it was a snake. I personally think it might've been something like a poodle. These #$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^& things are evil as it is. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] The Bible was most likely interpreted by some ophidiophobic person, and naturally that person changed the story so that it wouldn't be a poodle, but a snake. How can a snake be evil? I mean they do keep the rodent population under control. Not that rodents are bad or anything, but we all know it wouldn't be too much fun if the world were flooded w/ rodents. Maybe the whole "snakes are evil" idea stemmed from the fact that snakes' ability to move quickly across the ground without the help of arms or legs would be something only an evil animal (like one with magical powers) could do, or their methods of attacking and killing prey seems brutal. Anyway, I'm just rambling, I'll stop now.

Bry
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