OK How about a little controversy...

[Boaphile]

Four years ago I noticed something about hets (for Albino that is), normals and possible hets. Now don’t ask because I won’t tell you what it is exactly. Just be content that there is something that I noticed. Nearly every breeding that I have done with the Albino project successfully has been with het X het, 66% possible het X 66% possible het or het X 66% possible het. Because of this I have seen literally hundreds of possible hets. I have not produced many known hets over these last seven years. I have a number of Albino males but have not been very successful getting babies from these guys and so have not had the luxury of producing lots of known hets to keep for myself. I have had some nearly every year but not tons. So I had accidentally noticed something about the hets… I began looking around at other known hets, possible hets and normal Boas to see if this characteristic might be something that could be a possible indicator of those animals being Albino gene carriers. Don’t ask I won’t tell. I had told one breeder that I had a theory on this. He told me this information would be worth a great deal to him. I would tell him what it was if after investigating his own possible hets, if he thought there might be something to my theory he would pay me $3000. Well I told him, he paid and hasn’t asked for a refund.

Last year I bred successfully 18 pairs of possible hets. I had categorized these possible hets into two groups of Boas. Pairs where I believed both were hets, based on my theory and pairs that I thought probably both weren’t hets again based on my theory. Nine of these pairs I believed were both hets. Nine were not. Of the nine that were not one pair produced Albinos. Of the nine I thought were hets, eight proved to be both hets. Now when breeding possible he to possible het there is a 44% chance that both animals will prove to be hets. For me to be correct with 8 of 9 pairs is something of a mathematical miracle. This has proven to me that there is something to my little theory.

Unfortunately, this is and will always remain only a theory. I can’t use this theory to sell possible hets as hets and will not. However, I do use it to determine which possible hets I keep for myself. Of these that I have produced and kept specifically because I believed they were both hets I am hitting 100% so far. I am raising quite a few more possible hets with fantastic color that I believe are hets as well. Two years ago I bought a 66% possible het that Mark Kennedy, of www.marksherps.com fame. Mark had produced him after successfully breeding a pair of 66% possible hets he had purchased from me some years before. Mark had offered this animal for sale on kingsnake.com Boa Classifieds. I could tell from the picture that this Boa had the characteristic I look for and so when it was for sale for I think only $175, I bought it and he proved to be a het this year after breeding with another 66% possible het that I had raised from a baby I produced seven years ago. He is the best-looking het male I have ever seen too by the way… As time goes on I will have more data on this. Except of course the data that is most important. Guess if you will but I will not tell.

I just love figuring stuff out!

Good luck! Remember I will neither confirm nor deny any theory anyone posts here or in an email to me.

Thanks,

Jeff

The Boa pictured above was one of those 66% possible hets until two years ago and the Albino on her back was one of the babies she produced two years ago...
[addsig]

	Heterozygous Heterozygous - the animal carries the gene for a genetic trait but does not outwardly demonstrate the trait. Example: A boa that is het for albino looks normal but carries the albino gene. When it is bred to another het for albino boa or an albino boa, a percentage of the offspring will be albino.

[Boaguy]

[img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] Wow jeff!!
That sounds awesome.
I was just thinking the other day if there would ever be a way to tell a het from a
normal.
cant wait to see the results of further study's with this!


Boaguy
[addsig]

	Heterozygous Heterozygous - the animal carries the gene for a genetic trait but does not outwardly demonstrate the trait. Example: A boa that is het for albino looks normal but carries the albino gene. When it is bred to another het for albino boa or an albino boa, a percentage of the offspring will be albino.

[slaponte]

Well, I think you are a sick, sick man... [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]

How can you come here, wet everybody's apetite for knowledge, and then walk away and leave everybody hanging on?? Sick I tell you!

I have a question : how does keeping this "theory" a secret benefits you? The only advantage I can see is you can buy "possible" hets cheap that you think "under your theory" are true hets and thus "take advantage" of the seller. This would be a little "below" what I would expect from the Boaphile...

We know it is a visible trait. So now everybody will be checking out their hets and possible hets until somebody norrows it down, or you reveal it.

I would think it would be much more rewarding to publish your theory, have it validated and be recognized for your achievement...
[addsig]

	Heterozygous Heterozygous - the animal carries the gene for a genetic trait but does not outwardly demonstrate the trait. Example: A boa that is het for albino looks normal but carries the albino gene. When it is bred to another het for albino boa or an albino boa, a percentage of the offspring will be albino.

[trinitywolf]

Hey guys...I am moving this to Just Talk...just so everyone know where to look for it next time! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
[addsig]

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[eddie]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> Well, I think you are a sick, sick man... </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

We all know that, other wise he wouldn't be called the Boa-phile...
(in most states, the addition of 'phile' to most anything is illegal, or recocnized as a form of mental illness...)

Hehe, give him time and he may do just that, but for now I think he is being fair and letting everyone figure it out on their own.
Jeff is nice like that! [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
[addsig]

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[trinitywolf]

This is a very interesting find. I can't wait to see what this kind of information does for the herp world. I hope that it does good things.
I wish that I had your experience Jeff...and I will be watching my hets very closely to see who proves and who doesn't.

Ted
[addsig]

	Heterozygous Heterozygous - the animal carries the gene for a genetic trait but does not outwardly demonstrate the trait. Example: A boa that is het for albino looks normal but carries the albino gene. When it is bred to another het for albino boa or an albino boa, a percentage of the offspring will be albino.

[Reticu-Lady]

phile latin - love or apply oneself to
Boaphile = loves boas
[addsig]

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[Joltman]

you know I would love to know the secret. isn't it half the fun finding out the hard way. I think I know what Jeff is talking about. I would think that it has something to do with the snakes pattern. Jeff if you want to discuss this more and see if I am right contact me at joltman@redtailboa.net [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
[addsig]

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[cb76]

looks like i am gonna pay him $3,000 to get it over with [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

jeff, that is an amazing theory. i bey you are totally 100% right too!

if you have neeb proving it, and doing it for yrs, its gotta be true.

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn..................i understand that you dont wanna share, so sooner or later, i'll but it from you!

will
[addsig]

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[Boaguy]

well.. after days of printing out pictures of het
for albinos and normals... compairing them.. hanging them on the wall and stairing at them while i try to sleep at night,printing more.. and printing more and more and showing them to every one askin them if they see a diffrnce
i finnally found a diffrence! its pretty standout actualy.
dont know for sure if its what jeff is talking about but..
ill have to buy a pair of possible hets to see if im right [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]

_________________
You can never have to many boas!!!
My little collection

1.1 Brazilian rainbow boa's

0.1 Anery columbian red tail boa

0.1 Mexican rosy boa

0.1 Spotted python

1.0 Ball python

1.0 Hypomelanistic Bearded dragon

0.0.1 North

	Heterozygous Heterozygous - the animal carries the gene for a genetic trait but does not outwardly demonstrate the trait. Example: A boa that is het for albino looks normal but carries the albino gene. When it is bred to another het for albino boa or an albino boa, a percentage of the offspring will be albino.

	Female Female

	1.1 One Male and One Female

	Anerythristic A recessive genetic mutation in which the animal is void of red pigment.

[Radkon4]

If this is true imagine the impact it will have on the het market.
[addsig]

	Heterozygous Heterozygous - the animal carries the gene for a genetic trait but does not outwardly demonstrate the trait. Example: A boa that is het for albino looks normal but carries the albino gene. When it is bred to another het for albino boa or an albino boa, a percentage of the offspring will be albino.

[cb76]

imagine the impact it will have on the lying a**holes!!!!!!
[addsig]

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[trinitywolf]

I like to imagine the impact on the lying scam artist!


[addsig]

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[Ritchie]

Welp

here is my story.

I bought a 100% het from Person A. (reputable guy)
I questioned him.. I said how do you know it is a het if you never bred it?
He says
1. It has the characteristics of a het ( he then proceeded to tell me)
2. He bought it from person B (Another reputable guy)

I wss not sure if I beleived him. So I called person B

Person B says ..yup that is an animal I produced and yes it is 100% het.
I then told him what person A told me....he said something along the lines of...
trade secrets...I can;t confirm or deny.



I was then speaking to a breeder friend of mine the other Day.
and sure enough he also confirmed what person A was saying...
Which gave an explanation as to why person B did not want to reveal the secrets.


So to make a long story short.
I know...But I was sworn to secrecy.

and another thing.....
I am just in the testing phases of my theory. I gotta test it out

	Heterozygous Heterozygous - the animal carries the gene for a genetic trait but does not outwardly demonstrate the trait. Example: A boa that is het for albino looks normal but carries the albino gene. When it is bred to another het for albino boa or an albino boa, a percentage of the offspring will be albino.

[Radkon4]

ok spit it out.
[addsig]

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[trinitywolf]

OK...the plot thickens! Evidently the information is out there and BG12 thinks he has spotted it. I am going to do some heavy research this weekend!

This is driving me nuts! I can't wait to figure this one out!


[addsig]

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[Ritchie]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> I have a question : how does keeping this &quot;theory&quot; a secret benefits you? The only advantage I can see is you can buy &quot;possible&quot; hets cheap that you think &quot;under your theory&quot; are true hets and thus &quot;take advantage&quot; of the seller. This would be a little &quot;below&quot; what I would expect from the Boaphile...
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

Slap even if you know the theory.....selling a possible as anything other than possible is unethical.

this whole thing is just a theory. It is also based on judgment.
Lets say you and I knew the secrets.
Lets say we have ten possible hets.
Lets say someone tasked us to pick out the true hets.
You choices can differ slightly from mine.


Besides..He ws not taking advantage of the seller.
I know the seller of that boa that he bought.
The seller has posted elsewhere that he too knew the secret..but he was sworn to secrecy.

there are a couple of people out there who know the secret. All it does is increase our chances. But nothing is guaranteed

If you look he had 18 pairs. he was only right on 16 of them. All he did was increase his chances.

would a card counter tell you his counting secrets? nope
[addsig]

	Heterozygous Heterozygous - the animal carries the gene for a genetic trait but does not outwardly demonstrate the trait. Example: A boa that is het for albino looks normal but carries the albino gene. When it is bred to another het for albino boa or an albino boa, a percentage of the offspring will be albino.

[Ritchie]

Sorry I can't reveal my secrets...
I swore...and my word is my bond.

besides..I do not like to give out faulty information.
I have to go test it myself.

I still need to buy a 100% het female...
because my 66% het female is not looking to promising.

	Heterozygous Heterozygous - the animal carries the gene for a genetic trait but does not outwardly demonstrate the trait. Example: A boa that is het for albino looks normal but carries the albino gene. When it is bred to another het for albino boa or an albino boa, a percentage of the offspring will be albino.

[slaponte]

Ritch, I am not implying he would or not. I was just trying to figure out how would keeping this a secret benefit anybody.

If you can spot a het (with a high degree of accuracy) and I can't, you could buy Boas from me where I think they are possible het and you know they are. Thus, you could offer me possible het price for them, when you know well (to a high degree) that they ARE het. See?

Once more than one person knows, it is just a matter of time...
[addsig]

	Heterozygous Heterozygous - the animal carries the gene for a genetic trait but does not outwardly demonstrate the trait. Example: A boa that is het for albino looks normal but carries the albino gene. When it is bred to another het for albino boa or an albino boa, a percentage of the offspring will be albino.

[Ritchie]

yup it is just a matter of time. Jeff figured this all out by looking at the many hets and possible hets he has produced.

ALSO

he looked around at pictures
[addsig]

	Heterozygous Heterozygous - the animal carries the gene for a genetic trait but does not outwardly demonstrate the trait. Example: A boa that is het for albino looks normal but carries the albino gene. When it is bred to another het for albino boa or an albino boa, a percentage of the offspring will be albino.