Favorite Herpetologist?

[NicoleRussell]

Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Giving Bob Clark the first albino burm helped the herp trade how? By propegating the MOST abused reptile with possible acception to the green iguana in the pet trade? It might have lined a few greedy pockets but it caused pain, suffering and death to MOST of the snakes that were produced and is still an ongoing problem... ok...i'll quit. I could tell you how I really feel but I'm trying to avoid these touchy heated discussions.

I agree with Brett on subjects like this--and basically I feel similar about anything heated these days...but reptile discussions are not on my "stay away" list.....
Burms and Iguanas have been so exploited by breeders and/or importers that being a part of anything but a rescue involving these animals is greedy and thoughtless.
What other reason could there be?
And you can't tell me it's love of the animal---people who love certain animals will keep them and breed them ONLY if acceptable homes are available for the offspring.
Everyone knows there is a shortage of acceptable homes for these animals....the breeders of burms seem to feed on the impulse buying teenager who either kills the animal or gives it up when it begins to take up too much space...and the importers of Ig's are basically shooting for the same group.
It's sad that these people have any type of following at all really.

[Dbutton]

I don't understand how it caused most of the snakes that were produced to be abused. I have seen just as many abused rat snakes, rattlers, cobras and boas out there. It doesn't matter what species it is, some idiot will buy it and abuse it. The Albino burm did give the herp world a financial boost, I will not argue that. And there had never been snakes that sold for thousands of dollars before that. I have a 12 year old (on July 4th) male albino burm that is far from abused. Had him since he was a 12 hour old hatchling and he has not known a bad day in his life and has never been bred. I do know that the burm has been dubbed the first "domestic" snake and that many people get them without really knowing how big they get. But if I were to pick an overyly bred snake it would have to be the redtail boa. They were in the pet trade long before the burm started getting popular and I see just about as many of them at reptile rescue sites as I do burms though they get adopted more quickly since they are smaller and more docile (usually). They are also being stripped from the jungles in great numbers each year in what is called "farming" and smuggled into the country to be sold at reptile expos and online vendors all over the country but that is ok? The same goes for the ball python which is brought into our country by the 100's of thousands each and every year to be sold to people who can't get them to eat because they are too stressed out from being shipped so far crammed into little bags and then crammed into deli cups that are too small for them to even move and stacked on about every other vendors table at the shows. You can't jsut pick on irresponsible burm owners. There are plenty of other animals out there that are just as abused and over sold. I do agree with on the green iguana issue though. They are the sadest and most abused creatures in any arena of the pet trade.



David

	Iguana Iguana

[NicoleRussell]

Originally Posted by Dbutton

I don't understand how it caused most of the snakes that were produced to be abused. I have seen just as many abused rat snakes, rattlers, cobras and boas out there. It doesn't matter what species it is, some idiot will buy it and abuse it. The Albino burm did give the herp world a financial boost, I will not argue that. And there had never been snakes that sold for thousands of dollars before that. I have a 12 year old (on July 4th) male albino burm that is far from abused. Had him since he was a 12 hour old hatchling and he has not known a bad day in his life. I do know that the burm has been dubbed the first "domestic" snake and that many people get them without really knowing how big they get. But if I were to pick an overyly bred snake it would have to be the redtail boa. They were in the pet trade long before the burm started getting popular and I see just as many of them at reptile rescue sites as I do burms. I do agree with on the green iguana issue though. They are the sadest and most abused creatures in any arena of the pet trade.


David

The thing is it's way harder to find a home for a snake the size of a burm then it is a RTB.
*You* might have given the adult burm a great home (I would give any animal I aquire a good home too) but you have to admit you are in the minority.
Most people who end up with these huge baby snakes have no idea what they are getting into....even rescues can't handle the burms the end up with....heck my local zoo looks like they are in over their head.
I see a few like you--then I see 5 more like the idiots I have seen elsewhere who think it's a cool thing to have big snake until it gets big. Then it's being neglected, given up or let go.
Yeah all animals can be abused---corns, turtles, waterdragons etc--but Burms and Iguanas have gotten the limelight for a reason---they are the top 2.

	Iguana Iguana

[jtrott]

You know Nicole, I tend to agree with you on one topic. The burms and iguanas are first and second to none when it comes to reptiles in places of adoption. What I don't understand is why we, myself included, burm owners get bad names, and have to deal with the crap that we get because we own these majestic animals. Have you ever been to a Human Society. Do you have any idea how many there are in San Antonio alone. If we are talking about abused and mistreated, why not bash on the dog and cat owners as well. You want to talk about a highly abused/neglected "pet" lets talk about large dogs, pitbulls are the perfect example. Nicole, do you own any dogs or cats? If you do, then your dogs and/or cats are the same as my 5 burms, 3 retics, 2 balls, a boa, and a partridge in a pear tree. They are pets, and when I got into keeping burms and retics as a matter of fact, I understood that some can get over 20', and weigh more than twice me. That is fine by me because I was educated on the fact of that. When you see a burm, or any snake for that matter in a rescue, that is because of seller uneduction. I will be breeding burms this year, and plan to have at least 100, and selling the vast majority of them, but I will not be one of those sellers who will sell to any snot nosed kid with $100. I think the majority of problems with burms is lack of eductation by the seller. Nothing more, nothing less.

I am now prepared to take my internet forum beating. Julius, let me have it. You know you want to. I know how you feel about Burm breeders, and I am prepared to go back and forth on this topic with you.

Jason

	Iguana Iguana

[telefrag]

Originally Posted by Dbutton

I don't understand how it caused most of the snakes that were produced to be abused. I have seen just as many abused rat snakes, rattlers, cobras and boas out there. It doesn't matter what species it is, some idiot will buy it and abuse it. The Albino burm did give the herp world a financial boost, I will not argue that. And there had never been snakes that sold for thousands of dollars before that. I have a 12 year old (on July 4th) male albino burm that is far from abused. Had him since he was a 12 hour old hatchling and he has not known a bad day in his life and has never been bred. I do know that the burm has been dubbed the first "domestic" snake and that many people get them without really knowing how big they get. But if I were to pick an overyly bred snake it would have to be the redtail boa. They were in the pet trade long before the burm started getting popular and I see just about as many of them at reptile rescue sites as I do burms though they get adopted more quickly since they are smaller and more docile (usually). They are also being stripped from the jungles in great numbers each year in what is called "farming" and smuggled into the country to be sold at reptile expos and online vendors all over the country but that is ok? The same goes for the ball python which is brought into our country by the 100's of thousands each and every year to be sold to people who can't get them to eat because they are too stressed out from being shipped so far crammed into little bags and then crammed into deli cups that are too small for them to even move and stacked on about every other vendors table at the shows. You can't jsut pick on irresponsible burm owners. There are plenty of other animals out there that are just as abused and over sold. I do agree with on the green iguana issue though. They are the sadest and most abused creatures in any arena of the pet trade.



David

I will have to agree with that 100%

I dont think there is anything wrong with owning a burm, if you have had one for that long, your obviously doing something right.

But I Think where the issue lies is people who produce and sell them, and market them to people who really cant take care of them once they hit the 9ft mark (which doesnt take long if properly fed)

Same logic can be applied to boas, ball pythons, and many other species.

Its not just the pet industry that is removing many of these animals from the wild .
We cant forget that conversion of rainforest to farmland and grazeland, and for lumber exports destroys habitat , which is more detrimental then overcollection.

Overcollection, a species can recover from with proper management.

Overcollection+ habitat loss , how do they recover if there isnt any place to do so?

just my .02

But I dont think there is anything wrong with a responsible and properly equipped hobbiest to have a burm, or boa, or retic.

breeding, I wont go there for reasons brett states.

	Iguana Iguana

[Dbutton]

Well we sure hijacked this thread. Sorry.

David

[Shuba]

Real herpers go to the zoo

[jtrott]

breeding, I wont go there for reasons brett states.

I would love to hear it.

Jason