Heterodont (Hognose snake) question

[VexalUntil]

Hey all,
Does anyone know if Heterodonts (hognosed snakes) have venom glands? I know some people classify them as venomous and others as nonvenomous. Some say they have venom and others say they have toxic saliva. I've heard more people say the latter. If they have venom glands then I would be more willing to call them venomous. I also know that a good number of Colubridae have either venom, toxic saliva, or some of ingredients (I think it's proteins) found in venom.

I really want to take a herp anatomy class here at UF but they don't offer one. The herpetology class from what I hear focuses more on phylogeny...

[VexalUntil]

Oops...just realized it's Heterodon.

[John_E_Dove]

If I remember correctly Heterodon nasicus (Western hogs) have enlarged venom glands behind their rear fangs that are connected to the fang sheath capable of producing a venom which will kill small prey in a couple of hours. This is not really delivered through the fangs though but as a salivary agent. The rear fangs are really just to give them a better grip on their prey. If the prey does escape it has been bitten and the Hog can then track it down until it becomes immobile or dies.

Heterodon platirhinos, Heterodon simus (Eastern and Southern Hogs) have them but they are not enlarged/developed to the point that they create much in the way of toxic venom but they are still there and produce a weakened substance at best.

No the rear fangs are not for deflating toads they can’t swing down far enough to do that.

Now try to remember it has been a while since I read up on this but I think that is correct. Perhaps one of our more experienced Naturalists like BW Smith can correct any mistakes in my explaination.
But no matter, unless you suffer from an alergy all Hogs of North America are harmless to you.

	Hog Island Boa hogg

[luker3232]

very well put!

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[VexalUntil]

Thanks John! So by that definition then I would consider them venomous since they have the venom gland.

Originally Posted by John_E_Dove

No the rear fangs are not for deflating toads they can’t swing down far enough to do that.

That's different from what I've heard from a few herpers. I thought the fangs were fixed.

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

[qiksilver]

i'd say considered venomous, not quite a boomslang tho. they're considered opisthoglyphs, which means they have enlarged rear teeth with a groove to 'deliver' venom. Reactions to bites depend, and range from nothing to some pretty good swelling, some guy had a photo spread of the swelling he had from a bite from a western hog


**
so i just went hunting and found the link
hognose snake bite
note that the guy let this snake chew on him for a bit

	Hog Island Boa hogg

[Ghroller]

And actually getting a W.Hog to bite really does require a feeding response like the guy linked above. Read that one a few times.

They're great showboaters though, love to hiss and puff and "headbutt".