Color vs Scale Rot

Elizabethlea27 · #1 (**permalink**) 09-11-2010, 01:59 AM

Hey there again!
Well I have another thread in here on my 'adolescent' corn snake Buddy. He has mysterious shed marks.
But I have been keeping an eye on his belly as he's grown, and while he started out with a black and white checkered belly, it's now kind've light reddish colored, especially as it gets to half way down. And where I could not see his vent before, I can see it now because there is a marked change in color around those scales. I was wondering if he is developing scale rot, or if his color is naturally changing, as he is a red/orange snake, and his sides fade naturally into the color of his belly. I will post a pic if I can find one, my good camera is out of commission so I can't deliver a good look at his scales right now.
I mention the shed thread above because I was probably misting him too much. I have since stopped that, provided a humid hide (which he does not touch) and disinfected/changed his cage completely. Temp and humidity looks good. No misting like I said.
I guess my major question is, is it possible he is naturally maturing, or does it sound like a vet trip is needed?

This pic shows the underside on his head and neck a little, now imagine that as you look down his belly it fades to a light orange the color of his sides, covering up the checkers... all scales are smooth as of now....

Bluerain · #2 (**permalink**) 09-11-2010, 03:02 AM

Scale rot is caused by keeping your snake on a constantly wet substrate, which you do not.....and...by generaly bad environment conditions...which you do not have either.
In scale rot there would be raised pustules or blisters which exude clear fluid or pus, and the area would smell generally bad!
From your pic your corn looks perfectly healthy, and it is just some of his normal colouration overlapping onto the ventral scales.
Lets see what some of the others think though??

Elizabethlea27 · #3 (**permalink**) 09-11-2010, 03:13 AM

Thanks for the input!
I just went back and took a very close look with the help of my sister, two sets of eyes better than one and all that, and we noticed that there are darker orange areas, especially under his tail and towards the end of his body. Like I said, I don't know if it's his body coming into it's fuller color or what. But it's definitely different.
I kinda wish he were a totally black and white snake so if there was any red pigment at all I'd know something was up!
I've heard that rot can look like this before it gets bad which is why I'm calling out for advice heh. I don't want it to get to the horrible dripping pus stage. >.<

Before I stopped misting him, after he had his bad shed I was definitely misting the cage every day and probably soaking his cage too much. I'm thinking he could have possibly gotten something from being on wet substrate for a couple weeks until recently. I was just a newb not realizing what I was doing.

I'm definitely going to a vet on this one just to be safe unless someone really thinks it's NOT rot.

Oh and on the ventral scales - I could never find his ventral scales when he was younger, but now I can see them clearly because they are a brighter yellow against the light orange so my eye can pick out their shape. This also worries me >.< Will get pics asap!! Darn missing charger!!!

sFlsniper · #4 (**permalink**) 09-11-2010, 05:50 AM

You may not need one, but do you have a heat source for him? if so what is it?

HERPHAPPY · #5 (**permalink**) 09-11-2010, 06:39 AM

Hard to say without a close look at him, but you did say he is an adolescent? Some of my cornsnakes (Okeetee: red/orange!) developed alot more ventral color as they matured into adults...hopefully that is what yours is doing? They do not have traditional black & white 'tummies', that's for sure!

Elizabethlea27 · #6 (**permalink**) 09-11-2010, 06:50 AM

I have always used an under tank heater, an appropriately sized one for the 20 gal tank and then a bigger one for the 40 gal. I was also advised to get a basking lamp for that tank because he is still young and the tank is big for him, to make the warm side warm enough. So I have a nocturnal light in it 24/7 because I don't think he likes unnatural light. It is outside the tank and at an angle from the screen. I will post pic... let's see if I can find a good one..
You can't really see the lamp in this one, it's on the right. It is on the wrong side, a petco guy told me i needed the lamp on the opposite side from the UTH to "balance" the temp. Well I read the caresheets over on this forum and I looked it up and that's wrong so the heating is right now. He can get to a cool spot!! It was only set up the wrong way for a week. Other than that he's only had a UTH his whole life.

Elizabethlea27 · #7 (**permalink**) 09-11-2010, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HERPHAPPY

Hard to say without a close look at him, but you did say he is an adolescent? Some of my cornsnakes (Okeetee: red/orange!) developed alot more ventral color as they matured into adults...hopefully that is what yours is doing? They do not have traditional black & white 'tummies', that's for sure!

That is such a relief to hear!! I'd only seen youtube clips of corns with these perfect checkerboard bellies. And then the dire warning about scale rot...

Anyhow now I'm going on another round of searching for the charger!

Elizabethlea27 · #8 (**permalink**) 09-11-2010, 07:29 AM

Sorry to triple post, but here are some HORRIBLE quality pictures I procured with my video cam using still mode and my fiancé

I know you cannot make out colors because of the lighting... but maybe you can at least make out... something.. like his general age, and how he does have a checkered pattern, and how there is orange under there, and how I did not prepare for a photo shoot..
I willllll get better pics up these are interem to help out.. and no i don't usually hold him up by my eyeballs I was judging where the camera was!

Bluerain · #9 (**permalink**) 09-11-2010, 10:28 AM

If you really are concerned then of course a trip to the vet will put your mind at ease...Much better to be safe especially as we cant see your snake in person (only so much you can tell with pictures).
I"d also take all his substrate out and replace it with plain newspaper or kitchen roll...just until you get the 100% all clear!
To be honest though, i really think your corn looks fine..but...always better safe than sorry.
Let us know how you get on!!!

HERPHAPPY · #10 (**permalink**) 09-11-2010, 05:09 PM

Keep in mind that the last color to 'come in' on corns is yellow...I think that's why you are now seeing that on his ventrals? Looks normal to me...many corns have color on the ventrals, as I say my very old Okeetees have roughly the lower half of the ventral side that looks more like Halloween!? (orange & black...hee hee!) Those last pix were no help btw.
You might want to get a cheap used copy of a book called "What's wrong with my Snake" by John Rossi DVM (should find on Amazon!)...it's an older book but useful as are many others. But page 86 shows a fungal infection on the ventral scales of a snake...it's unfortunately a b&w photo but I once had a snake that had this...the spots were orange, so you could reasonably think it was normal on a corn snake? (that book is really useful with pix of other things you don't see everyday...(much less want to!?) I've been in snakes over 24 years so now I've seen more of them than I wanted!) Might even look for it in the library? But it's a paperback copyrighted 1996 pub by Advanced Vivarium Systems of CA.
As Bluerain already said though, you can also make a quick trip to the vet to put your mind at ease? I take it there are no raised areas (bumps) on your snake?

Elizabethlea27 · #11 (**permalink**) 09-12-2010, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HERPHAPPY

Keep in mind that the last color to 'come in' on corns is yellow...I think that's why you are now seeing that on his ventrals? Looks normal to me...many corns have color on the ventrals, as I say my very old Okeetees have roughly the lower half of the ventral side that looks more like Halloween!? (orange & black...hee hee!) Those last pix were no help btw.
You might want to get a cheap used copy of a book called "What's wrong with my Snake" by John Rossi DVM (should find on Amazon!)...it's an older book but useful as are many others. But page 86 shows a fungal infection on the ventral scales of a snake...it's unfortunately a b&w photo but I once had a snake that had this...the spots were orange, so you could reasonably think it was normal on a corn snake? (that book is really useful with pix of other things you don't see everyday...(much less want to!?) I've been in snakes over 24 years so now I've seen more of them than I wanted!) Might even look for it in the library? But it's a paperback copyrighted 1996 pub by Advanced Vivarium Systems of CA.
As Bluerain already said though, you can also make a quick trip to the vet to put your mind at ease? I take it there are no raised areas (bumps) on your snake?

Oh wow thanks!! I will definitely be looking up that book. I posted those useless pictures because I wanted to do something, even if it was pointless. I know still pointless.
The fact that yellow comes in last for corns comment was so helpful! And would make a lot of sense for him, if it were just color coming in. And thank you for describing your snakes' ventral side!

No scales on him are bumpy or raised, everything looks/feels normal except the color to me. I don't know if a fungal infection does anything more than affect color initially. But like I said, I am getting that book!

I know I sound like a hyperventilating hysterical mother... Being new to all this while caring a lot about your snake makes you feel kinda vulnerable when ANYTHING you don't understand happens. Yes it could be nothing, but it also could be... SOMETHING. lol.
I hate that feeling of total lack of experience.

Thanks you guys so much for helping me out, I'm off to buy that book so I can talk hysterically to it, not you (j/k). Vet trip may be needed like you and Bluerain said just to make me calm down

. Actually I'm already calm, thanks to all of you and the reassurance.

Thanks again!

Will post pics once I can get ones where you can actually see color.

Bluerain · #12 (**permalink**) 09-12-2010, 01:58 PM

Haha!
Your very welcome!..Dont worry we have all been there....and i still worry even now, its only natural when your snakes mean as much to you as yours do!!
Keep posting...Keep asking!!
Nobody minds in the least, and a problem shared is a problem halved you know!
Enjoy that book...Lol!!

HERPHAPPY · #13 (**permalink**) 09-12-2010, 05:33 PM

Yeah like Bluerain said...
We've all been there! It's when someone doesn't care enough to ask that we get upset!
I have some yearling "carmel corns" btw... it took quite a while for their yellow to really show up & they are still evolving!
It's normal for corns of all kinds to change quite a bit, color-wise! That makes them hard to pick out as hatchlings, but fun to watch the color unfold as they grow!

Elizabethlea27 · #14 (**permalink**) 09-12-2010, 11:58 PM

Thank you guys!
I ordered the book you suggested on amazon, and one more specifically on corns. I already had one from the pet store, but I haven't found it to be much help because it covers mostly Asian rat snakes and not the care of corn snakes (much) or their illnesses. I can't wait to see what he looks like when he's all grown up

Thank you again!! I will definitely keep you guys updated

Still no camera as yet tho lol.

HERPHAPPY · #15 (**permalink**) 09-13-2010, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elizabethlea27

Thank you guys!
I ordered the book you suggested on amazon, and one more specifically on corns. I already had one from the pet store, but I haven't found it to be much help because it covers mostly Asian rat snakes and not the care of corn snakes (much) or their illnesses. I can't wait to see what he looks like when he's all grown up

Thank you again!! I will definitely keep you guys updated

Still no camera as yet tho lol.

You remind me of me when I first got into snakes...I got whatever books I could get my hands on, and drooled over completely unobtainable snakes....LOL! (Petstores often sell wild-caught non-native snakes because they are cheaply obtained...but they often make poor pets due to stress/health problems...captive-bred is the way to go!) There are some terrific books now on corns (including but not limited to those by Bill & Kathy Love, who've been breeding/developing them for years), as corns are widely bred & studied. Glad we could be of help...

Elizabethlea27 · #16 (**permalink**) 09-17-2010, 07:35 AM

Ok so I'm officially putting Buddy's issues to rest, as I checked him out thoroughly today and obviously none of his scales are in bad shape, the color just had me running scared. In fact in this morning's light the checkered black parts were shining iridescent!! I was so happy

HOWEVER, before I drop this thread completely, I'd like to ask one last favor on the topic of scale rot. Two days after I got my new corn Candy I noticed a 'discolored' area on her head. Now I was concerned about mites because I am such a newb I just have no clue what is what yet. So I took her back to the pet store and the manager said it was a piece of bad shed ("oh we have to scrape multiple sheds off our balls all at once sometimes..."). Well with all the bad rep floating around from pet stores, I just wanted to double check with all of your experience - is this indeed just leftovers of bad shed? I have no clue. Lol thanks again for the help. I hope those books I ordered get here soon. She's just gotten out of blue now, so I suppose I'll see how she does shedding....

- Oh - and these were taken before the camera died when I first noticed something was up with Candy's head. Sigh.

Bluerain · #17 (**permalink**) 09-17-2010, 11:27 AM

What a good Mommy you are!..i have to confess i cant even see anything, prehaps a slight white patch?...could well be part of an old shed, not sure!
What i will say though is, nothing looks bad in your pics, there are no discoloured scales or crusty fungus patches, or red open bits..etc.

In fact, id say you have a very nice pretty girlie there!
Dont really think much of the "Oh we have to scrape all our balls"!! advice...Not really gonna help much is it??

When she has her next shed you will have a gorgeous 100% healthy looking wee corn...Im willing to bet my socks on it!!!

LSDillinger · #18 (**permalink**) 09-17-2010, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HERPHAPPY

You might want to get a cheap used copy of a book called "What's wrong with my Snake" by John Rossi DVM (should find on Amazon!)

This book is awesome. Everyone should have a copy.

HERPHAPPY · #19 (**permalink**) 09-17-2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSDillinger

This book is awesome. Everyone should have a copy.

Thanks, I think so too...but it is a little dated...there are new vet drugs available now, and more info on IBD etc....but it's well worth what little you will pay for a copy anyway! Some pictures are pretty awful, just a warning...but that's the only way to show the medical problems presented. I have found some good answers to things I hadn't seen before, and it's both readable & affordable for the average owner. Like once I took in a chronically starved argentine boa that matched the photo p. 43, where the skin remains thin & easily torn, even after the snake is being well fed! The poor snake had multiple tears which slowly healed with Silvadene cream and she gained weight of course, but needed 'TLC' from then on!

HERPHAPPY · #20 (**permalink**) 09-17-2010, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elizabethlea27

....HOWEVER, before I drop this thread completely, I'd like to ask one last favor on the topic of scale rot. Two days after I got my new corn Candy I noticed a 'discolored' area on her head. Now I was concerned about mites because I am such a newb I just have no clue what is what yet. So I took her back to the pet store and the manager said it was a piece of bad shed ("oh we have to scrape multiple sheds off our balls all at once sometimes..."). Well with all the bad rep floating around from pet stores, I just wanted to double check with all of your experience - is this indeed just leftovers of bad shed? I have no clue. Lol thanks again for the help. I hope those books I ordered get here soon. She's just gotten out of blue now, so I suppose I'll see how she does shedding....

- Oh - and these were taken before the camera died when I first noticed something was up with Candy's head. Sigh.

That discolored spot looks to me like she rubbed (abraded) her head sometime in the recent past...maybe during a shed, against a rock in the cage? but more likely against the top screen of her enclosure! Corns climb & look enthusiastically for escape routes...& they are agile enough to scrape the cage lid even with little to climb on! Don't worry about it...she is beautiful! (Mites do not cause that!)
What that petstore manager said about scraping multiple sheds off snakes makes me

And forcing skin off before it's ready to be shed (sometimes even handling a snake in blue) can damage their skin!

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