Overfeeding / Temperature

[Doc Holliday]

First, I apologize if this is a re-post, but I did try a search for overfeeding.

I'm a new owner of a 3 month, 24", female BCI. This is my first time for a boa and first time to feed a f/t item. I was told it would be time for her to switch to an adult mouse. So, I bought the adult mouse from a chain store, one of those gourmet rodents, thawed it for an hour, then in the bag, set it in a disposable container of hot (100-110) water for about 15 mins. I then cut open the bag and placed the mouse the feeding cage. I washed my hands and went back and got my new girl.

It wasn't until I placed her in the feeding cage with the mouse, that I realized it was about 20-30% wider than her! She immediately went for it though, and after circling it three times grabbed the head and swallowed it, all together in about 20 mins. I let her sit for a few mins and stretch her jaws. Then, I gently picked her up by the mid section, cupped her and carefully let her back into her cage and crawl into the hide-spot she's designated home ( she has three).

That was last night. I bumped the ambient temp up from 80-83 to 86-88, thinking that might help digestion.


1) I am not familiar with Boas or f/t food items.

2) My first snake was a Corn which I fed too large a prey item as a baby and it regurgitated then never ate properly again. I've since had a royal python who I unfortunately have been unsuccessful converting to pre-killed, but I purchased as a adolescent snake and have always been able to caution on the side of smaller food items.


Until she's larger, I will buy the packs of ten mice I can get from a local shop where I can see the mouse size and go smaller. But, for now what can I do to make this meal easiest on my girl and avoid health issues??

	Boa Constrictor Imperator Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor imperator). Most common is the Colombian Boa.

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

[Doc Holliday]

Well, it's morning two and still no signs of regurgitation... before feeding, I let the ambient temp drop to around 78 when the lights were off. Last night's lowest temp was 80.5.

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[Aaron-Insular]

You should be perfectly fine to be honest. If the wild they often take in prey considerably wider then them. It will probably just take a little longer until your snake is ready to feed again. It is generally recommended to stick to just about the thickest or a little thicker then the thickest part to avoid possible problems, but this does not mean they are incapable.

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[HERPHAPPY]

That she swallowed it in about 20 minutes means it wasn't too tough...?
But now you know what size you should get....Just don't handle her while she is digesting.
I'd recommend thawing completely* (totally soft & pliable...test with your fingers!) in cold water, then briefly in the warm water to bring it close to a live temperature. This helps avoid spoilage (as when it spends too much time in the hot water but may still be frozen inside).
Your royal python (bp) may be convertable: feed a harmless live fuzzy rodent...aka an "appetizer"? (eyes closed!!! otherwise they bite!) & then introduce the real f/t item either by wiggling with tongs (& hopefully they'll be pumped up enough to grab & eat) or by following (carefully so as not to spook & cause refusal) the nose of the f/t rodent behind the rodent just being swallowed, using tongs of course! You have to be right there & quick for this to work...and if the snake notices any commotion they often roll their head & neck...& you're out of luck! -but if you get it right, just as their mouth is open swallowing the first thing, it works great...& may help them learn to accept f/t without the ruse in the future! Good luck...(& I agree...don't feed live...it's an accident waiting to happen!!!)

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

[Doc Holliday]

Thanks for the advice, guys!

I may have been wrong on the time it took to eat. She immediately went for and constricted it, but it took several minutes of her biting the sides, butt, and finally head, before she got a good hold on it and swallowed, which was also slow, but didn't seem to be any problem. The whole process seemed like forever at the time, because I kept wanting to stop her, but didn't want to get between her and food.

I could be over reacting on all this, since my first experience with the corn a few years ago went horribly wrong.

And thanks HERPHAPPY for the advice on the python! I haven't tried a live then thawed approach! I am currently feeding her three adult mice twice a month. So, I could easily do two live then attempt one thawed, this time. Then 1 live, 2 thawed, next time. And eventually condition her to go totally pre-killed! Then, I could feed her rats and not tons of mice!

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[HERPHAPPY]

You're welcome! Most of us know how frustrating (and simultaneously adorable) royal pythons can be!

I am sorry about your corn snake...we all make mistakes...and so do they in the wild! There may have been something else going on with that snake (like cryptosporidiosis), or it was what we called regurgitation syndrome; when a snake regurgitates, it takes time for them to replenish the digestive juices lost, so feeding too quickly (before about 2 weeks) usually just gets the same result. (another regurg... and a downhill slide!)

Anyway, try to relax with your bci...and thanks for feeding f/t! They are great feeders normally...mine hasn't seen live in the 10 years since I took her in as a tiny terrorist that scared her first owners!?

	Boa Constrictor Imperator Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor imperator). Most common is the Colombian Boa.

	Corn Snake The Corn Snake or Red Rat Snake (Elaphe guttata) is a species of Rat Snake.

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

	regurgitate Throw up. Reptiles will regurge when they feel they are in danger or if they have some sort of health issue. If your reptile has regurgitated his/her food please seek help!

[Sliding Scales]

Originally Posted by HERPHAPPY

That she swallowed it in about 20 minutes means it wasn't too tough...?
But now you know what size you should get....Just don't handle her while she is digesting.
I'd recommend thawing completely* (totally soft & pliable...test with your fingers!) in cold water, then briefly in the warm water to bring it close to a live temperature. This helps avoid spoilage (as when it spends too much time in the hot water but may still be frozen inside).
Your royal python (bp) may be convertable: feed a harmless live fuzzy rodent...aka an "appetizer"? (eyes closed!!! otherwise they bite!) & then introduce the real f/t item either by wiggling with tongs (& hopefully they'll be pumped up enough to grab & eat) or by following (carefully so as not to spook & cause refusal) the nose of the f/t rodent behind the rodent just being swallowed, using tongs of course! You have to be right there & quick for this to work...and if the snake notices any commotion they often roll their head & neck...& you're out of luck! -but if you get it right, just as their mouth is open swallowing the first thing, it works great...& may help them learn to accept f/t without the ruse in the future! Good luck...(& I agree...don't feed live...it's an accident waiting to happen!!!)

What a great reply....



I always feel the mouse or rat to see if there is a frozen center. Also I use a lot cooler water and wrap the prey in tinfoil before I place it in the water, as it thaws faster for me. Yes the prey (mouse rat...whatever) is wet when I pull it out but I then towel it off with a clean paper towel. If you use too hot of water and leave it in for too long the prey will look bloated, and in my opinion that is not good at all.


Herphappy...you should call your technique the Caboose method.

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	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

[DiamondCreek]

Originally Posted by HERPHAPPY

.....or by following (carefully so as not to spook & cause refusal) the nose of the f/t rodent behind the rodent just being swallowed, using tongs of course! .....

I'm both shocked and surprised that you would recommend the classic power-feeding type move, especially since it is bad for the snake and will do nothing to encourage the snake to eat f/t since it really won't know that it just swallowed it behind its "appetizer" anyway.

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	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

[DiamondCreek]

Originally Posted by Sliding Scales

Herphappy...you should call your technique the Caboose method.

Hummmm....I've just heard it called "power-feeding".

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[ioctoberdrums]

the method sliding scales described worked wonders for me, and its not powerfeeding since he prefaced it with the starter being a fuzzy.
i have converted 3 royals using this method.

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[DiamondCreek]

Originally Posted by ioctoberdrums

the method sliding scales described worked wonders for me, and its not powerfeeding since he prefaced it with the starter being a fuzzy.
i have converted 3 royals using this method.

I'll defer to the greater experience, it just didn't sound like a good idea to me.

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[Rachel SS]

Since you have a BCI, I'm willing to bet that snake will take a f/t rat with NO issues immediately. They're hungry little things, and if you just dangle the rat a little bit away from their face and wiggle it a little bit on the bedding it'll still strike at the food

	Boa Constrictor Imperator Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor imperator). Most common is the Colombian Boa.

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

[HERPHAPPY]

Originally Posted by DiamondCreek

I'll defer to the greater experience, it just didn't sound like a good idea to me.

When you've both raised and taken in as many bps as I have, you learn to be creative!

	Ball Python The Ball Python (Python regius), also known as the Royal Python, is a ground dwelling snake native to the savannahs and rain forests in western Africa, predominatly the countries of Ghana, Togo, and Benin.

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[HERPHAPPY]

Originally Posted by Rachel SS

Since you have a BCI, I'm willing to bet that snake will take a f/t rat with NO issues immediately. They're hungry little things, and if you just dangle the rat a little bit away from their face and wiggle it a little bit on the bedding it'll still strike at the food

We were also discussing Doc's bp...re-read the first post #2. And I know you'll agree that feeding a bp live prey is not good!
(But yeah, a bci is normally a sweet feeder on f/t!)

	Boa Constrictor Imperator Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor imperator). Most common is the Colombian Boa.

	Ball Python The Ball Python (Python regius), also known as the Royal Python, is a ground dwelling snake native to the savannahs and rain forests in western Africa, predominatly the countries of Ghana, Togo, and Benin.

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

[Rachel SS]

Originally Posted by HERPHAPPY

We were also discussing Doc's bp...re-read the first post #2. And I know you'll agree that feeding a bp live prey is not good!
(But yeah, a bci is normally a sweet feeder on f/t!)

I don't think ball pythons are so much as picky about how their prey is "presented", if you will... if they have adequate hiding places, and their husbandry is spot on, they will be a LITTLE bit more consistent (i have 3 of them and this is just my observation), but still shy about eating. I think it's just a ball python "trait" to be picky.

	Boa Constrictor Imperator Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor imperator). Most common is the Colombian Boa.

	Ball Python The Ball Python (Python regius), also known as the Royal Python, is a ground dwelling snake native to the savannahs and rain forests in western Africa, predominatly the countries of Ghana, Togo, and Benin.

	Geek Auto Linker or Gallon Geek Auto Linker Gallon - United States liquid unit equal to 4 quarts or 3.785 liters

	Frozen/Thawed A rodent or other prey item that is frozen and then thawed to be fed to a reptile or other animal.

[DiamondCreek]

Originally Posted by Rachel SS

I don't think ball pythons are so much as picky about how their prey is "presented", if you will... if they have adequate hiding places, and their husbandry is spot on, they will be a LITTLE bit more consistent (i have 3 of them and this is just my observation), but still shy about eating. I think it's just a ball python "trait" to be picky.

Maybe I'm just lucky. I can only think of one incident where my BP has refused a meal. Its the most voracious eater in the group.

	Ball Python The Ball Python (Python regius), also known as the Royal Python, is a ground dwelling snake native to the savannahs and rain forests in western Africa, predominatly the countries of Ghana, Togo, and Benin.

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[Rachel SS]

Originally Posted by DiamondCreek

Maybe I'm just lucky. I can only think of one incident where my BP has refused a meal. Its the most voracious eater in the group.

I've noticed with age mine have slowly been less consistent with eating. When they were younger they were all great about eating. My feeding logs for them 2 years ago went from perfect every 2 week feedings, to... once a month... to once every other month... lol!

	Ball Python The Ball Python (Python regius), also known as the Royal Python, is a ground dwelling snake native to the savannahs and rain forests in western Africa, predominatly the countries of Ghana, Togo, and Benin.

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[HERPHAPPY]

Originally Posted by Rachel SS

I've noticed with age mine have slowly been less consistent with eating. When they were younger they were all great about eating. My feeding logs for them 2 years ago went from perfect every 2 week feedings, to... once a month... to once every other month... lol!

Yeah, with the ones I got as hatchlings, they fed pretty well until they got to sexual maturity (3-4) years of age. Then they went from being royal pythons to being royal pains!

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[Doc Holliday]

a quick update: Juanita (bci) poked her head out for a bit right after sunset! I went to grab a camera and she went back inside. But I think that means she's fine, maybe just needs another day of rest? Hopefully, tonight she'll be out and about in the cage.

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[DiamondCreek]

Originally Posted by Doc Holliday

a quick update: Juanita (bci) poked her head out for a bit right after sunset! I went to grab a camera and she went back inside. But I think that means she's fine, maybe just needs another day of rest? Hopefully, tonight she'll be out and about in the cage.

Glad to hear she's stirring around some. I'd take that as a good sign.

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