HELP SICK Ball Pythons - Kind of like mouth rot

[buddyb99]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum. I'm an amateur herp kind of guy and volunteered to work at this private 'zoo' with absentee owners. Anyways, their reptiles are not being taken care of correctly (i.e. they are feeding their bearded dragons fruit). I know the correct environments that all of their reptiles require - and will make those changes. However, I've never had a sick reptile before.

They have two small ball pythons - about 1 ft in length that look absolutely horrid. One is very very thin. Both of them have this yellow crust on their lips and I was told that they can't even open their mouths because of the crusts that binds their lips together - some other 'keeper' breaks it off with a qtip. I was told that the 'vet' said it was not mouth rot - but gave it 'shots' anyways. I know that they also are not feeding.

I'm going to improve the environment (ramp up the heat and provide hiding places). Should I force feed the poor things? Should I break off the yellow stuff with a q-tip. Does anyone have any advice? I'm really upset about this and don't know what to do - they shouldn't really have these animals. Anyways, while I'm there, maybe I can make some positive changes.

Thanks for your help!

Buddy

[owen.richards]

they call emselves a private zoo and they cant care for a ball python...thats just sick, good luck with them i wish i could offer some advice

[deadliestformula]

I am not sure on this, so take it with a grain of salt, but could it be dried drainage from an RI?

Maybe they are bubbling at the mouth from the mucus from the RI? The injections could be Baytril or some other antibiotic often used to treat RI.

Just a possibility, I know that when small kiddos get sick they get some very crusty snot that almost 'glues' their nostrils shut. Maybe the BP's are soo underfed/weak that they can't open their mouths>>>>

What temps and humidity levels are they being kept at? IF and only if RI is the case you should raise temps and lower humidity.

[project_evolution]

a few picttures might help out if youve got a camera snap a few and post here....

I'm an amateur herp kind of guy and volunteered to work at this private 'zoo' with absentee owners.

They have two small ball pythons - about 1 ft in length that look absolutely horrid.

they shouldn't really have these animals.

I'm going to improve the environment (ramp up the heat and provide hiding places). Should I force feed the poor things? Should I break off the yellow stuff with a q-tip.

Does anyone have any advice?

Its understandable to want to step in and help out people, and what your doing seems like an admirable thing indeed.That being said I would seriously reconsider being affiliated with anyone who keeps animals in such an "horrid" manner.When you say a private zoo, do you mean as in not open to the public, or privately owned? I would think if the owners collection were big enough to be labeled a zoo it would employ a regular vet and techs to handle these sorts of situations.It simply isnt that hard to take care of ball pythons.Aside from that you might want to think about cross contamination hazards. Get some bleach if there isnt some around.Clean everythings cage and wash your hands between cages. i would bring the temps up pretty high. Im thinking like 90-95f(someone corect me if im wrong)If the place is in that bad shape id say mite treatements for all reptiles.I had an RI in my supertiger, and gave him pedialyte in his waterbowl.If im not mistaken you (again if im wrong someone step in) could probably soak them in a 15qt tuperware with a bottle of pedalyte and water.that would go a long way to hydrate them fast.I wouldnt force feed unless you have to, ive had balls go months without food and suddenly start eating like champs.You get them to feeling a little better they may just start to eat on their own.Thats all i got ....good luck whatever you decide

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

[RioBravoReptiles]

Baby Ball pythons of that size showing extreme dehydration and low body mass will be very hard to salvage and that would be if they had not also been given antibiotics. I would not know what the stuck-labials could be except the remnants of some body-rot or belly-rot condition, maybe something from the cage itself?
.
The dehydration is the immediate problem because if they do eat and don't have the energy in themselves to digest it will likely kill them.
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If you can save those animals you'll deserve an award of some kind.

[buddyb99]

Thanks everyone for your help. First, yes, I'm already wondering how wise I was to get involved with this private zoo. This 'private zoo' actually goes around and does shows for schools and birthday parties and the what not. I thought it would be fun to volunteer and have the opportunity to work with different animals. Anyways, I feel like I'm in a moral dillema. I can walk away and know that these animals are suffering - or stay and help them out. Also, they are inspected by USDA (?) they said...so I can't really 'report' them to anyone - and don't know if I really want to cause drama. Having said that....

They told me they had one albino python die of mites. I told them that in my opinion no snake should ever die of mites (I think I'm right...). I am an amateur..I just have my one python - but I read up before I got him....so I time his lights, brumate him, mist him, etc...and it's not too hard. I kind of feel like I'm over my head.

RioBravo, although honest, makes me wonder if I'm wasting my time. My plan is this:

Increase the heat (their heat is already too low),
soak them in the pedialyte solution as suggested,
see if I can get them BAYTRIL shots (as suggested),
wipe their mouths with a hyrdrperoxide/water solution (as suggested...and watch them to see if I can see any bubbles coming out which would indicate a RI problem.
and I won't force feed them.

I really can't afford to pay any money on these guys - I mean, there are so many problems there, I would go broke trying to fix everything - they have a solomon island skink,. blue tonque skink, and bearded dragon - all housed together - in a bird cage and feeding them all bananas and fruit!!! Also, there seems to be some sort of eye virus going around. I can't believe they would spend $$ on ball pythons when they are already very cheap to buy (this isn't my mentality but theirs). They also have a couple of large tortoises (scalatta or something like that) - and I told them that they needed full spectrum light - and they told me that they take the tortoises out during the summer... anyways, I've only volunteered their one day, and I just feel like all I did was #$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^&#$%^& - and I'm like the 'new kid on the block". Sorry everyone, I know this is more ranting. Like I said..I'm just in a really bad situation - my conscience is bothering me about this one.

	Mites Mites, close relatives of fleas and ticks

[TammyJamaica]

Well you have really landed in a messy situation but I think it is very good of you to try to help, and I also think that whatever you try to do to help these creatures will be a good thing for them, considering how they are kept.

Isolate them as much as possible from each other. Wash hands/items between handling. Use triage and get the sickest ones looked after first. And most of all, know that you are doing something good, no matter what the outcome and if they die anyway. I know how you feel as I have had similar experiences. Been around....!!

Good luck! Keep us posted.

[BWSmith]

Off the top of my head, it sounds like dried mucus from an RI. I have seen that in bad petstores in the past. The soaking and raising heat sound like a good idea, but I would advise against administering antibiotics if you are not experienced in such. A vet should give you the antibiotics and show you how to administer them.

A few ditbits about antibiotics (mainly to make sure that the vet knows herps):
- The two primary broad spectrum antibiotics (gram positive and gram negative) used for reptiles are Enroflaxin (Baytril) and Amikacin (Amikin).
- Amikacin is the more effective of the two, but is tough on the kidneys so it should only be used in animals that are otherwise healthy (i.e. don’t use on emaciated or dehydrated animals).
- The pharmacokinetics of Enroflaxin administered PO have been shown to be equally effective or more effective than when administered SQ or IM.
- If Enroflaxin is to be administered IM, it should be cut with sterile water or Ringers to reduce pain at the injection site and reduce the risk of the animal getting steril abscesses (“Baytril Burns”).
- Dosage for Enroflaxin is 5-10 mg/kg for the initial dose and 2.5-5 mg/kg for followup doses at 48 hour intervals.
- Dosage for Amikacin is roughly half that of Enroflaxin with intervals of 72 hours.
- The preferred method of administering Enroflaxin is PO (vets give lots of injections because people feel like they are getting more for their money)

	Respiratory Infection Respiratory Infection