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Tara · #1 (**permalink**) 07-18-2006, 05:01 AM

I'll try to cover all the details without writing a whole book!....

Purchased a young ball python from our local pet store 3 weeks ago. This is our first snake. The pet store directed us toward the balls as being a good beginner. Not sure of exact age.

Kept in 10 gal aquarium. Under tank heating pad. Temps 85 on heated side...79 on other. 2 hide boxes, one of which was the water bowl. He could get up under the water bowl and seemed to like that one better. Cage by a window so I didn't put basking light as he was usually buried under something all day. Don't know exact humidity. We are in FL so I figured humidity wouldn't be a problem.

Pet store assured me it had just eaten. Offered a fuzzy about 5 days after getting it. Snake wanted nothing to do with mouse and seemed frightened by it. I tried the paper bag, towel on cage, leaving it overnight. I talked to alot of people about it. (reptile show, pet stores, internet) Even left snake alone fearing I may be stressing it. No luck. Tried for 3 weeks

However, I didn't notice signs of dehydration or any other concern other than not eating. Everyone I talked to said this was very common for balls and that they could go quite a while without food. Also that force feeding is very stressful and should be avoided. OK...but I'd feel better once it eats!

Today the snake was acting really weird. His underside was totally caved in up under his neck. He was kind of curling his head. Not moving. His tongue was grey and he kept it hangin out like it was stuck.

I called my vet (sees my other animals) and was not able to get an appointment. Went to a shop up the street that has snakes(not where I purchased) and they said we had to feed it. I figured at this point it was worth trying. I didn't want it to starve to death. The guy said he'd never seen the underside caved in like that before and wasn't optimistic. Got the mouse down (much easier than I expected )but snake died hours later.

What I'm wondering is if this was starvation...which makes me feel horrible for not force feeding it sooner...or is it something else like IBD which I've been reading about. Is anyone familiar with these symptoms? My son is devastated and wants another snake. Can I use the same cage?

Slithers · #2 (**permalink**) 07-18-2006, 05:08 AM

you can use the same cage, but clean and sanitize everything thoroughly.
balls are NOT good beginner snakes. a good beginner snake is a cornsnake.
I am sure your snake would have died of dehydration before starvation. Was the snake deathly thin?? if not, then it was prolly not starvation.

sorry to hear about your loss, good luck in the future.

Freakkboy · #3 (**permalink**) 07-18-2006, 05:47 AM

Unfortunately, this happened to my first BP about 12 years ago... Didnt know too much about it except that mine was wild caught/impoted. At the time I didnt know about cb snakes.
I did not really know what happened, but I associate it with being imported. I have had several BPs since then, but all have been cb and I have NEVER had a problem with any of them, except the occasional off-feed time.

As was stated, I think that Corn snakes are much better for beginer snake keepers, as they are a little more forgiving of the learning curve and super easy to acclimate to a new enclosure/ setup.

Sorry to hear about your loss. But just keep in mind, buy captive bread, well started snakes. Make sure that you sanitize the enclosure VERY well. No need to chance anything if it was a communicable disease that caused the death.
And dont give up! This is the best site to learn the best tips of reptile care.

Tara · #4 (**permalink**) 07-18-2006, 06:44 AM

Thanks for the info.

No...it was not thin. That's why I'm investigating more. We just assumed that it was starvation because we were unsuccessful with feeding. But it was only about 3 weeks.

It was just horrible and honestly I'm surprised how upset I was over the whole thing. I didn't realize how attached I was to the little bugger!

How big do cornsnakes get?

Why do pet stores sell balls as beginners? Frustrating!

Corvinedragon · #5 (**permalink**) 07-18-2006, 07:45 AM

"Why do pet stores sell balls as beginners?"
Money, money, and oh yes, money. I'd take anything and everything ever said by a pet store with about half a cup of salt. Have worked in a couple myself, and I know I never recieved any training about any of the animals I was supposed to be giving advice on, what-so-ever. Basically, they'll usually say whatever it takes to sell.

Cornsnakes get about 4-5' but are fairly light bodied compared to a BP. Very very good starter snake and comes in a HUGE variety of just gorgeous colors and patterns. So very calm and forgiving of husbandry/handling/staring at them, etc. Generally very reliable eaters, too. They're really wonderful little snakes, imo.

MED04 · #6 (**permalink**) 07-18-2006, 10:23 AM

I doubt it starved. Unfortunately, the only way to know the cause of death would be to take it to a reptile vet that could perform a necropsy.

As far as using the same tank, you can. I would make sure to clean it out good and let it dry. A cornsnake would be a good choice, but in GA we can't have cornsnakes as pets (since they are a native non-venomous species).

Sorry for your loss and good luck with however you choose to proceed.

Shadrach · #7 (**permalink**) 07-18-2006, 11:10 AM

Tara first and foremost snakes as with any animal (even humans) you will always have some that just don't make it very long. Nothing to do with the keeper just failure to thrive.

VoodooChile · #8 (**permalink**) 07-18-2006, 11:20 AM

Sorry to hear about your snake! PetCo is sooo wrong when it comes to their reptile care.
First a few things to keep in mind:

What were your temps? How were you measuring them?
Since it was a 10gal, and the cage was by a window, it is a possibility he got too hot. A 10gal is a relatively small cage, and fine for a small snake, however if the warm side gets upwards of 90F, you can be the cool side isnt much cooler. This offers NO escape from the heat, and the snake can't thermoregulate.
In a 10gal tank, a UTH could have provided too much heat, and no place to really thermoregulate. If a snake stays too hot or too cool, it wont eat.

Please dont underestimate the importance of a humidity/temp gauge. Often heating devices suck the humidity out of a cage. What feels warm and humid to you, may be baking your snake..

Near a window is never a good place for an animal, as the heat/cold often seeps thru the window, not to mention if the sun is ever directly pouring through the window!

Before you get another snake, I'd invest in a 20gal tank, humidity gauges, and thermometers. The digital ones are best (Wal Mart

) Move your cage to an inside wall, away from drafts or direct/indirect sunlight.

Go for a corn snake, and they are a much hardier animal for a first snake..Not to mention affordable, and great pets.
Ball pythons are notorious for being picky eaters, and its likely this one was underfed from the pet store.

Let us know if you need any more help

Tara · #9 (**permalink**) 07-18-2006, 12:42 PM

Thanks everyone!

I definitely will monitor the temps more accurately with our next one. Where do you find the humidity gadgets at Walmart? Pet section?

The lingering question for me is....even if my temps were not exactly correct and caused the snake to not want to eat...is this a case of starvation? Does it happen that quickly? I've read tons of things about dehydration and the signs of it. But it's one thing to read about it and a whole other thing to see what it looks like. I've only come across a few photos of sick snakes.

And what's with the tonguehanging out, twisting itself all weird....the caved in underside....he looked relatively normal until I turned him upside down. Has anyone seen a snake die from IBD?

I do still have the snake and I was wondering if I should bring it to my vet. I don't know if she can figure this out after the fact...or what it would cost....but I want to know for future snake keeping.

The snake was bought as a pet for my son. I knew I would be the caretaker or atleast the supervisor of his caring for it as my son is young. We've had lizards and other reptiles....I don't have anything against snakes...so I thought...sure, why not...I can do the mouse thing (even though we've also had them as pets)...Bring it on! Litttle did I know how addicting they can be!
I can't wait to get another one. YIKES!

Are cornsnakes easily handled? Do they try to get away? How are they in the hands of children? That's why the ball seemed like a reasonable choice...my son could just hold him around his arm.

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