PLEASE READ AND HELP ME!!!

Seany · #1 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 05:59 AM

Hi. Yet another feeding question... I read a lot of the posts here and books but I still can't get a strait answer. I have 3 snakes, an RTB, a Jungle Carpet Python and a Ball Python.
They are all well and healthy but I have a question. My RTB is about 8 months old, I've had him for 5 months. I measured him minutes ago to double check, he's going on 4'1''. I always thought that as long as he was eating, it meant he was hungry... so I fed him. He'll down anything I give him, even if it's 8 adult mice and 2 medium rats in one week!!! I'd never "trick" him into eating anything, (force or power feeding)
I just want him to be healthy. Should I keep feeding him as I've been doing or put him on a diet?
please tell me if I'm doing this right.
Also, nothing to do with my last question. I just purchased a beautiful BRB. Exactly how big (length and girth) do they get?
Thank you,
Sean
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Ed_r · #2 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 06:07 AM

Well he shouldnt be eating that many prey items. at 4'1" he should be taking medium to large rats. some snakes are just gluttons, if there is food they will eat it. Make sure your feeding prey items that are the thickness of the snakes widest point. Even my adult BCIs I only feed 1 Colosal rat a week and they are all 6.5-7' well my 7'er is getting 2 but I'm fattening her up after giving birth. Plus too many prey items can severly irritate the snakes throat. ususally if its eating that many prey items It needs larger prey.
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Seany · #3 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 06:12 AM

that's the thing... he's long but slanky (very musculer...just skinny) So I'm worried about giving him the rats and the mice seem to be inhaled by him. Should I ignore the fact that it's wider than his body and give him the rats or stick to the size thing and just "load" him up with mice?
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Ed_r · #4 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 06:16 AM

try the next size up rat and only give him 1 or 2 a week. actually what you should also do is take it to a vet anf have it checked for worms or other parasites. Does the snake poop allot?
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#5 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 06:16 AM

First off...

WELCOME TO REDTAILBOA.NET!!

Second.. You really need to change the way that you feed your snake. You should feed him rats as they have more of a nutritional value to them than mice do. Also like Ed said.. go with the girth rule on which size you feed the snake. I would suggest a medium rat most likely. Just feed him 1 of them every 7-10 days and the snake should be fine. If the snake seems to be huingry still, then go ahead and give it alternating rations of 1 prey, 2 prey at feedings BUT stick with every 7-10 days also.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> Should I ignore the fact that it's wider than his body and give him the rats or stick to the size thing and just "load" him up with mice?
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UMM..Rats come in many different sizes, just find the size that is closest to his girth is all and feed that size.
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JC86 · #6 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 06:18 AM

They seem to be saying this a lot in the other threads...

But take a prekilled medium rat and stretch it out...if it's much thicker than the thickest part of your snake then it's too big. I recently had this problem and it's how they answered me...a scrunched up frozen mouse or a live mouse(or rat) usually looks bigger than it actually is.

My personal opinion is that you are overfeeding, some also just told me you shouldn't feed anythign more than 3 prey items per 7-10 days.

Scott
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#7 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 06:32 AM

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> some also just told me you shouldn't feed anythign more than 3 prey items per 7-10 days.
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I also reccomend NOT feeding any more than 3 prey items at a feeding too. The basic reasoning behind such is due to...
* the gut flora needing time to replenish itself for one on the constant feeding thing
*the more prey items that are in a snake's stomach cavity, the higher the chance that some of it will start to "rot" out and can lead to health problems for the snake.
*If your snake needs more than 3 prey items at a feeding, you either need to increase the size of the prey and/or also need to have the snake checked for internal parasites possibly due to it's ravenous appetite.

Hope that clarifies more so for ya ...
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Seany · #8 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 06:35 AM

Thank you all for your help, I knew I had to be over feeding him. Now for a different question. all my snakes are roughly the same size and under a year old. I have them living together for now in a 125 gallon tank (72'' 22'' 26'') they get along together great... how important is it to seperate them while eating? also, I feed them in their tank... I've never had an agression problem... do you think I should take them out when I feed them?
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#9 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 06:50 AM

OH MY! Your really trying to get at us aren't ya ? lol j/k
I'm in admin stuff atm but someone will be along to go over thoroughly what's needed to be changed hehe.

Such will include...
feeding out of tank/cage
housing separately
crossing of pathogens possibly
feeding responces
etc...

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kogoz · #10 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 07:00 AM

The reasons she says to separate them is because

1. they are different speicies
2. there from edifferentparts of the world
3.it causes them alot of stress
4.if you house them together they will transmit desiese and all of them will die
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Seany · #11 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 07:06 AM

Sorry, should have cleared that up, just getting tired. I normally have them living seperate. the Ball python in a 55 gallon, the Jungle Carpet in a 90 and the RTB in a 125. however we had to clear a room due to flooding and I had to house them together for a while... my question was can I mix them for a week or two and can I feed them together until I seperate them.
I will admit that I feed them in their tanks, I'll take it you don't think that that's a good idea?
I don't want to sound like a complete idiot... I know a bit and I'd never keep them all together.
thanks for looking out for me though...
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txgirl266 · #12 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 07:11 AM

Since we are on that subject of housing together, is it true that pythons and boas are toxic to each other? I was told that once and was just wondering!
Anyway you should never house different species together even for a short period of time and you should never ever feed them together!!!! The best thigna ctually is to feed in a seperate container other than thier enclosures, this helps to make sure they don't ingest substrate and so that they don't associate your hand in their tank as "feeding time"!
Just my 2 cents!
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#13 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 07:17 AM

Oh ok.. yeah I have had to place different ss together for short durations [ I think if anyone said they neverhad..I'd umm oh well whatever...]
Most people on this site will suggest NOT to feed in the cage due to the possible reactive responce from your snake when going into the cage and the snake thinking it is feeding time and striking out at ya . I have had an instance where I had no choice but to feed in the cage and after that for one month's time about..EVERY time we went into the cage..we got struck at.
Then there are others who will tell you that it doesn't matter or make a difference if you feed in the cage.
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Bry · #14 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 07:19 AM

*sighs* Actually, you shouldn't be keeping all of these snakes together. For one thing, they all come from very different environments and have different requirements. BCIs like it warm and humid, while BRBs like it cooler and much more humid, carpets seem to like it a bit drier than BCIs in my experience, and balls like it about the same as carpets do. Just this alone is gonna be pretty much impossible to provide in a single tank (though I think your huge tank comes pretty close to being big enough for that, lol).

They may seem to get along, but they are actually more apathetic than anything about the other snakes. You don't see them getting excited when they see each other, they're more like "You are a snake, and so am I, whoop de bleeping doo!" Snakes don't really fight, unless they're males fighting over a female, but let's not get into that. You may not see it, but they compete for the warm spots, hiding spots, and the water for soaking. Snakes are pretty conceited if you think about it and would rather be alone. So, all of this would stress them out.

Plus, the snakes you mentioned come from different environments, each snake has built its own immunity to the pathogens that are normal in their environment, but the other snakes have not. So, you're bound to get them all sick with something another snake has. Even if two snakes of the same species are kept together, if one gets sick, the other one most likely will too. You won't be able to know who's been sick or passing wastes normally and who's not. So, you'll end up treating ALL the snakes which could get pretty costly real quick with 4 snakes.

Now that's out of the way, let's get started with feeding. [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img] It's a good idea to feed snakes outside of the enclosure so they don't ingest loose substrate like wood chips which would cause a whole new set of problems. There has also been expressed concern in the past (a million times) about feeding in the enclosure leading to the snake attributing the opening of the cage door/lid with food and the keeper gets bitten. I haven't had this problem, but I'm sure it's happened w/ much more aggressive feeders. Plus, keeping snakes together could lead to problems when you put them all back in and they smell like food.You've seen them eat before, you know what could happen. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't.

With all of these things added up, it's just not worth the trouble with all the risks involved. My suggestion: sell the big tank and use the money to get smaller cages for each one of the snakes. Oh yeah, that's another thing, snakes get stressed out in huge enclosures w/out much places to hide, especially the small ones.

To answer your question, BRBs get to about 5-6' in length and I believe approx. as fat as a pop can.

Oh yeah, welcome to Redtailboa.net!

Bry - all talked out (imagine that!)
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#15 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 07:22 AM

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE> Since we are on that subject of housing together, is it true that pythons and boas are toxic to each other? I was told that once and was just wondering!
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UMm.. It may have just been the person's word choice is all in order to get the point across to you. They are NOT toxic. They do have different normal bacterias/pathogens which what one has can be a health problem for the other and vice-versa. That's prolly what the person was talking about is all.
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Drax · #16 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 07:23 AM

Welcome to Redtail!

it seems that you now have the feeding question out of the way so now on to your last post.
(sorry this gets kinda long, but its all good info [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] )

even though 125g tank gives the snakes plenty of room (since they are still small) to roam around in, it's not a good idea to house diferent species together for a number of reasons. firstly there's the cross contamination of parasites/diseases. then there is the problem that one snake will eat another, not a big deal with boas and pythons but throw a good sized kingsnake in there and say bye-bye to your little babies. also you can't tell which poop goes to what snake. one poo could be infested with worms, really runny, or otherwise abnormal and you will not be able to tell who's poo that is. plus there's the small chance that if you do drop a prey item in the tank, one snake may go for the prey and get it's cage mate by mistake. it will be less stressful for the snakes if you housed them seperately. snakes are generally shy solitary animals and dislike running into another snake in his/her home. all in all, housing multiple snakes, wiether or not they are of the same species, per inclosure leads to the above problems.

now on to the question about feeding out of their enclosure. generally it is best to feed your snake in a seperate container. if you feed your snake in another container you will erase the problem that the snake will accidentally ingest some of its substrate material (what's on the bottom of the tank). secondly the snake will not associate the opening of his cage to feeding time. with red tail boas this practice is not such a big deal since they are generally very mello animals, but with snakes like amazon tree boas (ATBs), reticulated pythons, or any other overly large and/or aggressive snake feeding out of enclosure just works best. no one wants to try to feed a 20+ foot aggressive retic that has associated the opening of its enclosure with dinner time. another cool reason to take you snake and move him/her into another container to feed is that you get to hold him/her for a while as you get the container ready. and as i mentioned before sometimes when two snakes are put togther in the same enclosure on may strike at a potential prey item, miss, and then start to constrict its' cage mate. from what i've heard from other people on Redtailboa, is that a snake who's just eaten and put back in an enclosure with another snake will get attacked by the other snake because it retained mouse/rat smell from its feeding.

there i think i covered everything i could. if you follow the above your snakes will love you for the rest of their long and happy lives [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
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#17 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 07:26 AM

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font class="pn-sub">Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT class="pn-sub"><BLOCKQUOTE>Bry - all talked out (imagine that!) </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

DANG Bry ! You were prolly typing away the whole time it took me and then some to post all the different posts here lmao. Who could imagine that YOU are all talked out huh?? lmao
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Seany · #18 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 07:38 AM

Well, thank you for your advice... here's what I think I'll do. the BRB is going back tomorrow leaving me with the BP, JCP and RTB... I have them in the huge tank with 2 caves, rocks, driftwood and 3 big waterbowls... I have 2 combo lights with plenty of heat wattage, full spec UV during the day (they don't need it but it sure can't hurt) and heat pads on the far sides of the tank with ceramic heat bulbs on 24/7. I can mist the jCP for extra humidity...
it brings my setting to 84 on the far left to 92 on the far right during the day and 76-78 at night with a 60-70% humidity in the entire tank. I really don't see much interaction as they all have their spots... I'll remove them for feeding as I did notice my BP swallow a little Aspen in his last feeding.
Do you think I can get away with this?
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Bry · #19 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 08:02 AM

Yeah I was, Lori. LOL After that, I read all the posts that came while I was in the middle of typing and I'm like "Argh!" lol But they did say they were keeping some snakes together, so I guess it wasn't all for naught.

Seany, please don't tell us you're using hot rocks. I don't want to get into that as well. lol Also, why are you taking the BRB back?

Bry
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Drax · #20 (**permalink**) 06-05-2002, 08:13 AM

i guess you could get away with housing them together for a while longer. just add a couple more hiding spots in both temperature ranges. try and make an elivated hiding spot for the JCP. i made one each for my little JCPs and i they're in them all day.

also try and tone down the heat on the warm side 92 is a bit hot. about 88 is average.

ps> if you do decide to keep the BRB (which are awsome snakes [img]modules/Forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] ) i would strongly suggest getting another enclosure for it. they need high humidity and would not thrive in the tank with the others.
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