Just wondering about this.

keller346 · #1 (**permalink**) 12-06-2004, 04:28 AM

As most of you who have went to the dentist have had a novacaine shot you know what it does. Well I have some novacaine and mepivacaine and the mepi is less potent. I was wondering what would you think would happen if I inject a rat with it and numbed them so they can't move than feed them to a snake? What made me think is what does a Vet use when he has to do a surgery on a snake?

Reptscue · #2 (**permalink**) 12-06-2004, 04:38 AM

All we do to a reptile is gas it down with Isoflo gas. Novocain is not a medication that is used that way. You would just numb the area that you inject. I don't know what would happen to the boa that would eat it. I know if you feed an animal that is euthanized w/ sodium pentobarbital, the animal that eats the carcass will die.

WhiteLips · #3 (**permalink**) 12-06-2004, 04:50 AM

the "caines" which include the two you mentioned as well lidocaine etc can have some pretty bad effects if given in improper doses (at least in humans)- some thing to consider... what if it numbs up the snake? (or worse) since I guess you would inject it, then feed it to the snake it wouldn't have a chance to metabolize in the rat....?? just a thought

keller346 · #4 (**permalink**) 12-06-2004, 04:53 AM

Yea novacaine is something I wouldn't ever use and do not have it used on me when there are other options. It is toxic if not used right and I don't trust anyone that much...lol

Eric From Cincinnati · #5 (**permalink**) 12-12-2004, 04:14 PM

Here's my question. Why would you want to do that? About the only thing I can see happening is the mental torture of the rat shortly before it dies. If you're looking for the warmth, put it in a baggie and run hot water on it after the rat is dead/whacked/yanked/whatever.

keller346 · #6 (**permalink**) 12-12-2004, 04:15 PM

Its not that I want to its just a question I was wondering about while I was bored.

Cretia · #7 (**permalink**) 12-13-2004, 12:53 PM

I've thought about the most painless and humane way to feed mice, and I think it is simply freezing the poor things yourself or buying them already frozen. Its a less hostile way for them to die. They huddle up and before they know it their heartbeat stops. This is also of course, better for the snake. i would think that being squeezed to death, knowing your about to be eaten, would be mental torture whether the mouse is numb or not.

reptilemama · #8 (**permalink**) 12-13-2004, 01:08 PM

Actually, freezing to death is a pretty painful way to die, and for an animal as large as a rat, it can take a *long* time. Co2 or the pillowcase-meets-the-floor method are usually considered the most humane.

Cretia · #9 (**permalink**) 12-13-2004, 01:28 PM

Co2??? Never heard of that. I've tried the whole pillowcase thing, and holding them by their tale with a hard swack on the wall, and i've tried the thing where you hold a ruler at the base of their neck and jerk up on their tale and none of it works for me! I end up feeling more horrible cause i can't kill it right. Freezing is just the best in my situation cause I'm callenged when it comes to killing them quickly.

I still think its better than being squeezed to death. I have seen that take quite a little while, amazingly. It's really unnerving if the mouse squeals and kicks for a long time. Once, before I had the slightest idea what i was doing, I went to a crazy woman in San mateo to get mice cause everywhere else either didn't have the right size or was closed. She gave me a baby hairless rat. I was kind of wierded out that she gave me something raised to be a pet instead of the usual, but I figured you know- whatever. When my snake got that rat it SCREAMED (not squeeked or squealed) bloody murder for forever I swear! It really freaked me out.

Cretia · #10 (**permalink**) 12-13-2004, 01:32 PM

Oh I almost forgot, I'm still using small-med mice. I havn't gotten up into anything like rats or a bunnies. Could their small size have something to do with my inability to kill them easily? And, is it as painful for the mice to freeze since they're smaller and it takes less time?

reptilemama · #11 (**permalink**) 12-13-2004, 01:36 PM

I think it's just as painful for any animal. That's part of the reason I started buying frozen- cheaper, easier, and I don't have to do the killing. Oh, and Co2 is carbon dioxide. If you fill a chamber with it, then add the rodent, they will basically suffocate and die quickly.

JuliusSqueezer · #12 (**permalink**) 12-13-2004, 01:41 PM

Yes, Freezing to death is a horrible death for anything. When fat and other cells begin th freeze, the crystalize and rupture and the pain is great and death is relatively slow. I have heard and seen where some have euthanized reptiles this way too. Please never do that, it can take from several minutes to over an hour for them to die this way. It's too easy for us humans to close that freezer door and declare our job done and put it all out of our minds...meanwhile, there is a little mini holocaust going on in the freezer and the suffering is great.

C02 is by far the most humane way for small mammals. It's too slow for euthanasia of reptiles though.

I know this sounds brutal but blunt force head trauma is a fairly humane death if done right. I don't like the pillow case thing because you are just slamming the whole rat against something and beating it to death. One swift well placed whack to the back of the skull and lights are out for good and they never know what hit them. Kinda like when we get a head injury in a car crash..."I saw headlights coming, heard tires squeeling...then I woke up in the hospital and don't remember anything else." When the brain is sloshed during head trauma, nothing is recorded during that time to memory. The difference here hopefully is that the rat doesn't wake up.

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